Question for the Wise Ones

by Charles, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:07 (4683 days ago)

My Step Son is a LEO and his duty weapons is a Glock in 357 Sig. Every night, he clears the chamber and reloads the round into the mag. In the morning, he racks the slide and puts the same round back into the chamber. He noticed that the round that has made repeated trips from the mag to the chamber has had the bullet shoved back into the case. This is Speer Gold Dot, factory ammo.

Other than the obvious, what do you think is causing this. It is normal or an aberration? He certainly won't fire the round. My best guess is the edge/lip of that big HP is striking something on the trip from the mag to the chamber.

[image]

Not very wise, but, that happens with virtually every auto

by Rob Leahy ⌂ @, Prescott, Arizona, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:12 (4683 days ago) @ Charles

I have done that with. The bullets just can't take the repeated trips while hitting the feed ramp. He might consider a bolt down, fast access handgun safe as a superior alternative to unloading and reloading his duty gun.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

Not very wise, but, that happens with virtually every auto

by Charles, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:32 (4683 days ago) @ Rob Leahy

He has already broken the code on that and will have a quick access handgun safe, so he can keep it with a loaded chamber. He has a 7 year old daughter in the house and wants to keep things safe for her.

yes, this is common

by bj @, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:25 (4683 days ago) @ Charles

If he does this every day then he needs to be aware of it and not keep doing it with the same cartridge. The photo shows a pretty extreme case. With the bullet seated that much deeper the pressures will be higher when the cartridge fires. Whether it matters or not would be difficult to answer but just a little change in case volume can make a big difference in pressure.

The best thing to do if he has to unload/reload every day is to watch the cartridge on top and when he starts to detect it getting shorter, put that cartridge aside for practice and put a new one on top. A single cartridge can tolerate a few hits on the feed ramp but doing it every day will eventually lead to a problem. Spread the hits around to more than one cartridge and he won't have to throw away any ammo.

This was new to me

by Charles, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:38 (4683 days ago) @ bj

but then, I keep a round in the chamber of my autopistols, when they are not in the safe resting. I keep a Glock 17 and a 1911 close at hand in the house. There is a Smith and WEsson 59 in the car. All are ready to go..just point and squeeze!

Very common and exacerbated by the 357 SIG

by cas, Friday, December 09, 2011, 13:07 (4681 days ago) @ Charles

since it has so little neck tension.

A piece of useful advice

by AaronB, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:29 (4683 days ago) @ Charles

I'd tell him to go to the range and run a box of ammo through it once a week. That'll keep him and the ammo both fresh.

-AaronB

Common.

by JLF @, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:38 (4683 days ago) @ Charles

It happened routinely for years with my .45acp stuff, especially with taper crimped handloads with jacketed bullets. I relegated the round to the plinking ammo pile, and shot it up with the rest. No pressure problems with non-+P level handloads in this caliber. I can't speak for hot rods like the .357 sig.

JLF

Question for the Wise Ones

by bob @, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 10:55 (4683 days ago) @ Charles

way back in the last century (!) when i was a butter bar, had a chance to go to an armorers school, old gent who ran it had a movie, it showed cartridges cycleing thru automatic weapons. some of those guns actually bent the round as it chambered! not too suprising then that a bullet gets shoved back; have had this happen with some non-auto rifles, such as my old M25 Remington when the bullets nose hung up on the breech.

Question for the Wise Ones

by Murphy @, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 12:12 (4682 days ago) @ bob

As others have already stated, it isn't uncommon for this to happen.

My memory won't allow me to recall which LEO agency it was, but it was a large department. It seems there were far too many failure to feed or eject problems after the 1st shot with their automatics. The guns were of good quality as was the ammunition.

After some questioning, it was common for a lot of the officers to go thru the same routine your stepson does nightly. Oddly enough the weapons that were failing after the 1st shot, were the ones that were loaded/unloaded every day using the same round time and again. Which, is when they discovered the shortened rounds from repeatedly hitting the feedramp. Needless to say, a lot of officers immediately changed habits.

Murphy

Question for the Wise Ones

by woody, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 12:38 (4682 days ago) @ Murphy

Our M&P's in .45 at work do that all the time. All the guns for transports that get loaded and unloaded all the time have a few rounds like that in the top of the mag. I always set that one aside and start fresh.

I'm not wise by any means

by Catoosa, Thursday, December 08, 2011, 21:52 (4682 days ago) @ Charles

But I can learn from my mistakes. When loading for high-pressure autopistol rounds like 9mm and .38 Super, I now back off the expander plug so that the first step will only enter the case mouth as deeply as the bullet base will seat, and the belling step does not even touch. Then I use a Lee universal belling die to flare the case in a separate step. After loading, the round gets run into a Lee factory crimp die to remove the case flare and give it a good taper crimp. This gives each loaded round a distinct "wasp waist" appearance and insures that it takes LOTS of pressure to push a bullet back in the case during the feed cycle.

OK, I'm paranoid about bullet setback, but after almost blowing a 9mm case in my treasured LW Commander years ago due to setback, I'm convinced that being anal about it is the way to go.

From Charles' photo, it looks like the bottleneck .357 Sig case has nothing except neck friction to keep the bullet from setting back, and there's not a whole lot of neck there....

Question for the Wise Apples...

by Sarge, Friday, December 09, 2011, 07:38 (4682 days ago) @ Charles

I've seen this mentioned frequently among .357 Sig shooters on a number of forums. All auto cartridges will set back, if cycled into the feed ramp enough times, but I suspect there are several factors that make the Sig more susceptible to it. Extra-healthy recoil springs are one and I think the other is that the .40 size case head is simply better supported by the breech-face, and requires more force to tip the cartridge up into the chamber.

Regardless of the caliber, it's a good idea to discard any round that has become visibly shortened. Beyond any potential pressure issues, you know the crimp is failing, Chuck it in the pond and eliminate the problem before it gets worse.

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