Gentlemen, I am looking into a 5.56, and I am wondering if there are any brands to avoid? This will be a CC purchase, only because I strongly feel the need to bolster my defensive capabilities. I originally wanted a .308 platform, even something along the lines of the Ruger Scout, but it just seems that the 5.56 makes more sense from an ammunition and even reloading standpoint. I know I will be giving up stopping power and range, but on the other hand 22 bullets and a pound of powder go a long way in the .223. This is going to happen in the next week or so, any input is greatly appreciated.

Dave

Bushmaster, S&W, DelTon, Colt, LMT, and so forth might have varying snob appeal but by and large one is as good as the other given the same format. So many parts for these are made by the same maker, one has to give some credit for their ability to market the guns at the prices they get. I think Jeff just tested a DelTon at a really good price point, relative to the others. S&W sells a gun without the forward assist and ejection port cover at a similar price point of around $675 on "the street".

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Sincerely,

Hobie

Midway has a flyer out with a DPMS carbine upper for 379... Not sure if the bolt carrier is included. BUT The last couple I picked up from Midway DID come complete. A CMMG lower is 260 or so...cheap and light reliable AR.

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Of the Troops & For the Troops

Thank you very much gentleman.

I doubt big city Walmarts would have them. Windham is the company started by the guy who sold off Bushmaster. After his 5 year no compete clause was up, he re-opened the factory in Maine, hired back some of the workers and went into business.

any money you saved on the initial cost will be more than lost when you go to buy a dozen magazines.

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Of the Troops & For the Troops

also same dilemma - horror stories about some of the AR15 brands not being reliable. Never heard that about the mini 14. I like plastic pistols but not plastic rifles...

Rifle in Alaska...

Completely different kind of guns....

The Mini will not be able to handle high performance heavy bullet ammo due to barrel twist...

Info from Gunsight is that they have NEVER had a Mini make it through a carbine course without mechanical failure...

Mag change is slower than even a AK...

Accuracy is not in the same league as the AR...

I understand the attraction for walnut and blue steel...still...a good Mini will never run with a good AR...

If you are looking for a good 5.56mm rifle....ARs are near the top of the list...the new SIG maybe better....maybe...

Minis not in the real running...

Byron

Mine will never be run all that hard. To me it is a lot less complex than an AR and more accurate than an AK. Mine will be more of a plinker although I am toying with the idea of deer hunting with it.

It as the "worlds greatest plinker"...

It is my understanding that the most common failure is extractor related...

Most Minis are 1/12" twist which will limit you to 55 grain bullets...these will kill deer but are not really the best choice for shooting deer with 5.56mm...

Try a box of Winchester 64 gr Power Point loads...this is a good deer load...the CHP has used it for years and publishes a 100% one stop shot record on bad guys...

The Mini may shoot it...

Byron

I would only buy Colt, S&W, Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, or LMT. Maybe Stag but not if I could get one of the others. I have two S&Ws and am an armorer at a PD with a mix of Colt, Bushmaster, and S&W. The Colts and S&Ws are put togther better than the Bushmasters, and I've spent more time working on the Bushmasters than the others combined.

Almost all AR complaints that are based on fact...are due to lowend guns...

Byron

go with my AR's. Brand - I'll bow to those with much more trigger time on them than I.

you ever get a caribou heard going in Tennessee, you'll be set

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Of the Troops & For the Troops

extractors. My sloppy old bought used ss Mini ate Everything without a stutter. Steal case, brass 223, Lake City 5.56 Federal Tracers(Great for Glaciers and Ice burgs!) lacquer case, rusty case, it didn't matter. the rear sight did keep flying off. I have a scope mount and a Trigicon Reflex sight.

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Of the Troops & For the Troops

that winchester load from my KelTec is incredibly accurate!
bob

63 gr. Sierra and that same powder charge worked a treat. Great stuff. Can't yet hunt deer with it here though...

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Sincerely,

Hobie

1- High End (a little over priced for what you get)
Colt
LaRue
Wilson Combat

2- Top Quaility (good to have if you are going to Iraq next week)
Daniel Defense
BCM
LMT
Noveske

3- Good Quailtiy (reliable, trouble free)
Rock River Arms
Smith & Wesson
Delton
Spikes Tactical
Stag
DSA

4- Maybe/Maybe not (questionable history)
Wyndam Weaponary
Sig Sauer
DPMS
Armalite

5- Not with a ten foot pole
Number 1 sales
Bushmaster
Olympic Arms

The old saying applies here, "you get what you paid for"

Mostly this comes down to what you want and need.....got a lot of money and want to show off who's name is on the side of the reciever, buy from #1 list. Like I put in the list #2, if I was getting shipped off to some crappy warzone, one of these would give me comfort at night. A good home defense and range gun that you wouldn't have to worry about, buy from list 3. Something from list 4, you are taking your chances and list 5, not even if the price was $400.

You don't have to go crazy and spend a fortune on a all mil-spec AR for home and range duty, nice to have but not really needed. Any good quaility AR will give you years of trouble free service. And the great thing about AR's, they are easy to fix, repair and upgrade.

My lastest is a bought/built rifle.....I bought a RRA mid length gas system light weight 16" flat top upper. Replaced the plastic handguards with a 10in Midwest Industries 2pc railed forearm and mounted it on a home built lower using a Noveske forged lower and mostly mil-spec parts. A little higher cost doing it this way but I have the rifle I wanted and the fun of doing for myself.

Gunner

Suffice to say I do not care for the AR platform. Never picked up one that felt right to me. OTOH, I can hit what I aim at with a Mini-14. To each his own.

Yeah, you can kill a deer with a .223. You can also kill one with a .22 Long Rifle. That don't mean it's a good idea. That the Mini-14 won't shoot heavy bullets macht nichts zum ich. .223 in any platform is a varmint cartridge, two or four legs, and 45-55 grain bullets will do fine out to 250 yards or so. Any farther, get a .308.

Nm

Nm

That's funny I've had a couple 1000 plus round weekends on my AC556 with no trouble. One weekend had an estimated 2500 rounds on it. Locked up at one point when it was very hot but I was able to butt stroke it on the ground to clear. A little spray lune and it was back up and running!

I've used a few Minis over the years and seen them run hot at Department qualifications and general fun shoots. Those guns span the period between the first offerings and the post 580 guns. I have never seen one break. This is not to say that it doesn't happen.

I also mess with a half-dozen M4geries as the Dept. armorer for the things. My take is this. The later Minis shoot as well or better than the typical entry-level M4gery. The Mini is more reliable with a broader range of ammo. The ergonomics between the Mini and the M4 are not even comparable to me. The Mini 14 feels and shoulders like a rifle should. Even the factory trigger of the Mini beats the garden variety M4. Yes, you can put a 2 stage trigger on an AR- for a couple hundred more bucks. Reckon that would buy a few magazines?

No, the Mini does not enjoy the aftermarket support of the AR and the mags are more expensive. I don't care. I just don't obsess over this MBR stuff. I'm not Delta or Force Recon and I know it. Four 20 round magazines are all I'm ever going to need and two would probably cover it. I'm not going to bolt a bunch of crap on a Mini or anything else. I'm also not going to expect it to shoot like a varminter and I could care less if it won't handle 'heavy' 22 bullets. I've not had any trouble getting a stock 580 to group under an inch with 65 grain Sierras and I've clean killed deer with them, offhand and using the irons, at over 150 yards. There is really nothing more I'm going to ask from this type of gun.

While the AR/M-4 may have some better attributes, the Mini is definitely 'good enough' and I mean that in a good way!!

My AC wears a red dot and has no trouble hitting a 6"'plate at 100 yards on semi auto. Not a target gun but I know I can hit a man sized target out to 250-300 yards with its 13" barrel.

Nm

Pretty much my same experience with the Mini.