Renovating The Rossi
by JimT, Texas, Friday, April 01, 2022, 09:56 (967 days ago)
I have had a Rossi levergun that Paco gave me some years ago. It's a .357 Magnum, a
caliber I like in the Model 92 guns. The problem with it is that the barrel is 2 feet long! Now a .357 gets most of its power in 16”. The extra barrel is not needed. PLUS ... it is octagon making it really really front-end heavy. That's just a lot of weight to hang out there. I had not messed with it other than to chronograph some loads and shoot a few targets and I got to where I was wanting to use it more. But it was UNHANDY! So I started looking to buy a regular round barrel for the Rossi and found they were almost unobtainable.
BEFORE
I talked to Gary Reeder and he said he could turn the barrel round. His machinists would just turn it down on a lathe. While I was thinking it over I talked to Steve Young and he shared a picture of an octagon Rossi he had shortened to 16”. It looked good. So I decided before I had the barrel turned I would cut it down and see how I liked it.
I decided to cut the barrel to 18”. This left some material to work with in case I decided to have the barrel turned.
The forend wood was 'way too long to look good on the shorter barrel, so I shortened it also. And I had to cut dovetail in the bottom of the barrel so I could install the hanger that the cap for the forend goes on.
Next the magazine tube magazine spring needed to be shortened. This is how much I had to cut the tube. I cut the spring about 4” longer than the tube and it works just fine. After it was all put together I found the magazine holds 10 rounds of .357 Magnum.
I pulled the gun apart and began cleaning up and smoothing the internal parts. Rossi's do not have a lot of handwork done on them and you can improve the feel of the action with some time spent polishing parts and lightening certain springs. It did not feed Magnums smoothly and with advice from Steve Young I was able to get it where it runs .38 Specials and .357 Magnums smoothly .. even semi-wadcutters. In working on the internals I had the gun apart maybe 20 times, polishing something and then installing it and seeing how it felt. If you are interested in slicking up a Rossi Model 92 I would recommend you go to ww.stevesgunz.com and order his DVD on how to work on the Rossi leverguns. He has some really good stuff on it.
I cut the dovetail for the front sight and installed it, then cleaned the gun and put it all together. It came out really nice and feels really good! It balances well, points quickly, carries in the hand comfortably. I think I will leave it as it now is and just use it!
To keep the magazine in place under recoil I drilled through the forend hanger and cut a groove in the magazine and pinned it in place.
FINISHED
A Word About The Rear Aperture Sight
The sight replaces the factory safety on top of the bolt. I like a bolt-mounted peep sight on leverguns. The sight that goes on the tang is right in the way of everything you need to do once you've fired the shot! This sight is available from Steve's Gunz at the website I listed above. And no, I get no payment for recommending them. They work and they get rid of the crappy lawyer-safety.
Renovating The Rossi
by Slow Hand , Indiana, Friday, April 01, 2022, 10:19 (967 days ago) @ JimT
Looks good! Back when I first started shootings f CAS I had a Rossi 45 rifle with an octogon to round barrel. I used your ratio to tear it down and slick it up some. That was a fun rifle.
My current one and only Rossi has been cut to 18” and threaded for one of my 9mm suppressors. It’s a lot of fun to shoot and very quiet with mild .38 loads.
Renovating The Rossi
by Slow Hand , Indiana, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 08:19 (966 days ago) @ Slow Hand
Won't let me see it cuz I ain't a Facerbooker.
by JimT, Texas, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 08:31 (966 days ago) @ Slow Hand
nm
Won't let me see it cuz I ain't a Facerbooker.
by Slow Hand , Indiana, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 08:56 (966 days ago) @ JimT
Won't let me see it cuz I ain't a Facerbooker.
by JimT, Texas, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 09:12 (966 days ago) @ Slow Hand
Yessir... that works! Nice! -- It was my fault .. missed the link in the first post. Old Man Troubles ...
It's funny that in countries where it is hard to own firearms, suppressors are encouraged for those who have firearms and are no big deal.
I remember that rifle at Cannon's. One
by A K Church, Sunday, August 13, 2023, 15:09 (468 days ago) @ JimT
of the too few I have attended, sadly.
I remember Jenny shooting it.
The dissonance between a '92 Winchester (in effect) and a tri-lug adapter, is quite a lot.
IN SEARCH OF THE PERFECT RIFLE
by JT, Friday, April 01, 2022, 11:43 (967 days ago) @ JimT
In Search Of The Perfect Rifle
Campfire Tales by John Taffin
It has been my privilege over the past 50+ years to spend a lot of time with dedicated shootists who also happen to be highly opinionated. One of the most enjoyable times one can have is to gather a bunch of these great folks together and throw out some questions. Loaded questions that is. Things like: “What is the best handgun for self-defense; a double action revolver or a semi-automatic pistol?” “Are single action sixguns actually viable for self-defense?” “Which is the best choice for hunting, the .44 Magnum or a Heavy Loaded .45 Colt?” “Do we really really need Magnum sixguns?” “What’s the best semi-automatic pistol ever?” “Are today’s sixguns really as good, or even better, than the old classics?” “What’s the best choice in a rifle which will handle everything we are likely to encounter?”
Several decades ago I brought forth the idea of a Perfect Packin’ Pistol. This has been taken up by a large number of shooters who know exactly what PPP means. My good friend custom gun builder Gary Reeder even offers a Perfect Packin’ Pistol package. My original definition of a PPP was a sixgun or semi-automatic with the barrel not less than 4” nor more than 5-1/2”. It would be easy to pack just as the name implies. Carry it all day and then put it under your pillow or bedroll at night. The chambering could be anything from .22 Long Rifle up to .500 Linebaugh depending upon where one’s travels took them.
My passion for most of my life has been sixguns; not far behind this is the same feeling I have for leverguns. Now at this stage of my life I am expanding my PPP to a rifle. My goal is to come up with a rifle, preferably a levergun which is the long gun version of a Perfect Packin’ Pistol. If I decided to go in the direction of a bolt action rifle, there’s nothing for me to do as I already have the perfect rifle bolt-style, that is for me. It is the Ruger Model 77 Hawkeye Compact 7-08 with a 16-1/2” barrel. It is extremely lightweight and portable and kills all out of proportion to its paper ballistics. So, since that one is taken care of I now look at the Perfect Levergun.
Much of my shooting time over the past years, more like many decades, has been spent shooting the big-bore leverguns. That is, the .45-70 and the .444 Marlin, even the .450 Marlin which deserves better treatment that it gets. I’ve also been behind the butt stock of many a .25-35, .30-30, .38-55, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, and .375 Winchester. All great cartridges. When it comes to sixgun length cartridges in leverguns, .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 .44-40, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt have all been found to be highly useful. However, at this stage of my life the one rifle I would pick to be my everyday companion, to travel anywhere in the desert, sagebrush, foothills, forest and mountains in my area would be a levergun chambered in .357 Magnum.
Today we have several production examples of .357 leverguns. For more than four decades if one wanted a .357 levergun there was just one choice and that was a Winchester Model 1892 .32-20 converted to .357 Magnum. I believe it was Marlin who first offered a .357 Magnum levergun, that being the Model 1894C. Not too long after this beautiful little carbine surfaced, Browning brought out the B92, a rendition of the original Model 1892 but chambered in .357 Magnum. Somewhere about the same time Rossi started offering their version of the 1892 in .44-40, .45 Colt, .44 Magnum, and thankfully .357 Magnum. Winchester was not to be outdone and they introduced Trapper Models with 16-1/4” barrel lengths in .30-30, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, and yes, even .357 Magnum. Today, Winchester offers replicas of both the 1873 and 1892 Winchesters in .357 Magnum; after a long dry spell Marlin is back producing quality leverguns again including the .357 Magnum; and Henry also offers their Big Boy in .357 Magnum.
These latter mentioned carbines are all excellent examples of a lever action .357 Magnum, however my choice to come up with the Perfect Levergun starts with a stainless steel Rossi Model 92. It took a bit of searching for my local gun shop, Buckhorn, to find one, however with a little searching they were successful. This was a standard 20” barrel stainless steel Model 92. As an aside I just stopped at Buckhorn today and they just had two more come in and they said the .357 Magnum is one of the most requested lever action rifles.
When my Rossi .357 Magnum arrived, I found it certainly was not a Perfect Levergun by any means, however it was a good base gun. The action was gritty and the trigger pull was at 8 pounds. I turned it over to my friend, gunsmith Milt Morrison to smooth up and get the trigger down more in the neighborhood of 3-4 pounds. Since this was a stainless steel rifle, which to me says a weather beating rifle, I felt the stock needed more than the stain finish it came with. At this stage of my life I doubt if I will ever be out in really bad weather with it, however perhaps someday one of the grandkids or great grandkids will have this as a companion levergun and carrying it in all kinds of weather. So with that in mind I had Milt refinished the stock and also get finish down in the barrel channel and under the parts of the stock which could not be seen and make sure they were also protected from weather.
My first shooting experience with the standard iron sights was definitely up and down. If I really concentrated I could put three shots in about 1-1/2” at 40 yards, however they could just as easily spread out to 4 inches. Better sights were definitely in order so I had the boys at Buckhorn drill and tap the left side of the receiver for a Lyman Model 66 peep or receiver sight. While they had it, and since I was planning this to be the best possible levergun rendition of the Perfect Packin’ Pistol, I asked them to cut the barrel back to minimum length which under government regulations is 16” and usually done at 16-1/4” so there is no problem with length. Way back in the early days of Marlin, they issued Trapper guns, real short-barreled guns with 14” barrels. Col. Cooper, before he came up with his Scout Rifle concept talked of the ideal defense rifle being a 12” levergun, preferably in .30-30. I believe .44 Magnum but also work well. There is one small problem. The shorter lengths are illegal unless one has a $200 license.
No I cannot explain the logic of this regulation. Why should it make any difference what the barrel length of a rifle is? Handguns can have any length barrel one chooses, however if a stock is to be attached to a sixgun or semi-automatic, the barrel length must be no less than 16”. At one time Colt offered their Buntline Special with a wire stock which attached to the grip with one screw for the purpose of shooting long-range. Today, this is not allowed with a 10” or 12” Buntline.
Back to my Perfect Levergun. Just as with the PPP I set up parameters. The barrel length is no shorter than federal regulations and no longer than 20” with 18-1/2” a better maximum length. Just as with the PPP it has to be in a chambering which could handle anything that might arise in one’s personal wanderings, and just as with the PPP this could be anything from .22 Long Rifle up to .500 Linebaugh. My choice is .357 Magnum for several reasons. It is extremely versatile able to handle .357 Magnum loads from fast stepping 125 JHPs up to 200 grain hard cast loads for hunting as well as a long list of .38 Special loads.
In a Carbine it is quite accurate with mild felt recoil with most loads, and the Model 92 platform is probably the slickest handling of all lever action rifles. If used for self defense or home defense, the shortest barrel makes it more difficult for an assailant to grab the end of the rifle. Especially for home use I would have the first two cartridges to be .38 Specials; less recoil and muzzle blast.
Just as with the Perfect Packing’Pistol, for the Perfect Lever Gun the joy is in the search not the finding. Many Perfect Lever Guns will be found as the search continues. This candidate for the title of Perfect Lever Gun, let us call it PLG for a short, is a blending of an old classic design with modern technology; Browning’s Winchester-style action with stainless steel construction. Sometimes, progress is acceptable.
Thanks John ...
by JimT, Texas, Friday, April 01, 2022, 13:07 (967 days ago) @ JT
nm
IN SEARCH OF THE PERFECT RIFLE
by The Alsatian, Tuesday, April 05, 2022, 16:51 (963 days ago) @ JT
Good thoughts here. I find myself shooting a Marlin levergun in .357 more than anything else these days. Not my favorite, but it is the most used rifle in my rack.
Renovating The Rossi
by Frank S, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 06:32 (966 days ago) @ JimT
Good thread.
Gets me to thinking about a 357 leveraging.
I currently have a pre safety Winchester and Rossi in 45 Colt
And enjoy them both immensely.
The Rossi is SS with a large loop on the lever.
Renovating The Rossi
by JimT, Texas, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 07:32 (966 days ago) @ Frank S
All Leverguns are fun! These days I am partial to the .357 ... fits my needs and the time of life I am in.
REAL PISTOL CALIBER CARBINES HAVE LEVERS
by JT, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 09:54 (966 days ago) @ JimT
Real Pistol Caliber Carbines Have Levers!
By John Taffin
Much attention has been given recently to pistol caliber carbines, especially ARs chambered in 9 mm. So much attention, in fact, some might think it’s a new idea. Not quite. Carbines chambered in pistol length cartridges go back well over 160 years.
The very first attempts, some more successful than others, to come up with a repeating firearm involved pistol length cartridges. The first successful repeater, the Model 1860 Henry, was chambered in the .44 Rimfire which is definitely a cartridge which proved to be suitable for chambering in sixguns. The Spencer arrived about the same time as the Model 1860 Henry and it also featured a pistol length cartridge. The Model 1860 Henry was improved to the Model 1866 Winchester and was still chambered in the same .44 Rimfire. In late 1869 Smith & Wesson came forth with the first successful big bore cartridge firing revolver chambered in the .44 S&W American, a centerfire cartridge, however it was also chambered in the .44 Rimfire.
1873 saw the arrival of the first Center-Fire Winchester with the Model of 1873 chambered in .44 Winchester Centerfire (.44 WCF) or as it is most commonly called today, the .44-40. Meanwhile, the same year Colt issued their Single Action Army in .45 Colt. Prior to this Colt Cartridge Conversions were available in .44 Colt and many believe the first Single Action Army was actually chambered in .44 Rimfire.
I recently read, in another magazine, that the Winchester 1873 was chambered in vintage revolver rounds. Actually that is backwards! Winchester went on to chamber the 1873 in a necked down .44-40, the .38 WCF followed by a small bore cartridge, the .32 WCF. These are more commonly known today as the .38-40 and .32-20. They were originally rifle cartridges. Colt chambered their Single Action Army in all three of the Winchester Centerfire cartridges, however they all arrived first in lever action carbines. Winchester also necked down the .32-20 to come up with the .25-20, however Colt did not chamber their Single Action Army in this dandy little cartridge. It remained for custom sixgunsmiths today to accomplish this.
At the time, Winchester did not chamber their lever action Model 1873 in .45 Colt with a couple reasons which seem obvious. One problem would be feeding. The .45 Colt is a straight-wall cartridge, while the .44-40, .38-40, and .32-20 are all bottled-neck cartridges, or tapered if you will, making them much easier to feed from the action into the chamber. Another reason, probably the most important, is found by looking at the rims of. .45 Colt cartridges. The original rim was very small without much area for an extractor to grab onto. And I recall reading of handloaders complaining in the 1940s-50s of rims pulling off when cases were re-sized giving birth to the myth of weak .45 Colt brass. Even today, the .45 Colt cartridge which has a larger diameter case than the .44 Magnum, actually has the same size rim. An improvement in modern brass is the channel cut around the base of the cartridge case right in front of the rim which allows a better grasp by the ejector. Even so I don’t believe any lever action carbines were chambered in .45 Colt until quite a while after both Marlin and Winchester chamber the .44 Magnum which was in the mid-to late 60s.
One of the great attributes of the 1860s/1866/1873 Winchesters were how smoothly they operated. They are very particular about overall case length, however with the right ammunition it is almost a spiritual experience working the lever of one of these great guns. Today’s replicas work exactly the same way. These first leverguns could easily be operated without removing the butt from the shoulder and this is true of most leverguns today. Keep the butt on the shoulder and work the action with authority.
After the 1873 Winchester the Models 1876 and 1886 arrived chambered in what we normally think of as rifle cartridges, such as the .45-60 and .45-70. Then in 1892 Winchester went back to their pistol length roots modernizing the 1873 Winchester into what is basically a miniaturized Model 1886 but chambered in the same cartridges as the Model 1873 Winchester. The Model 1892 proved to be one of the slickest handling and strongest lever action carbines of all time.
Although Real Pistol Caliber Carbines are lever actions we do see the beginnings of handy carbines with the arrival of the .351 Winchester Self Loading (WSL) in the semi-automatic model of 1907. In 1941 the United States military adopted the .30 M1 Carbine which was widely used in WWII. Ruger still chambers their Blackhawk revolver in .30 Carbine. The real modern era of PCCs lever action-style began in the early 1950s. Ward Koozer, a gunsmith in Arizona, began converting .32-20 Winchester Model 1892s to .357 Magnum. One of my favorite articles found in this magazine at the time was by Kent Bellah and featured his sixgun/levergun combination consisting of a 3-1/2” Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum and a Koozer converted Model 1892.
I believe the first Magnum Pistol Caliber Carbines lever action-style factory produced were the Winchester 1894 and the Marlin 336 both chambered in .44 Magnum in the late 1960s. In 1969, the old Marlin 1894 was resurrected and offered in .44 Magnum, and then later in .44-40. This action, being shorter, is better suited to sixgun cartridges than the .30-30 length 336 action. Marlin also made a special run of Trapper-style 1894 carbines in .44 Magnum and .45 Colt with a 16 -1/4" barrel, full magazine tube that holds seven or eight rounds depending upon the nose length of the bullet, a recoil pad on its straight gripped stock, checkering on forearm and buttstock , and excellent sights. Winchester would also go on to chamber their Model 1894 in .45 Colt and .357 Magnum offering both in Trapper versions. In the 1970s, Marlin brought forth their Model 1894C chambered in .357 Magnum. This is one of the handiest carbines ever offered and our family has four of them currently in use. Marlin also chambered this little carbine in .32 Magnum, .32-20, and .25-20 and since they did not come up with one in .327 Magnum I had my local ‘smith convert one of the .32 Magnums to this longer cartridge.
One of the great benefits of Cowboy Action Shooting is the resurrection of so many classic Winchesters all chambered in pistol-length cartridges by Uberti. All three of the original Winchesters, Models 1860, 1866, and 1873 have been offered in the original three chamberings as well as .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, and now the Model 1873 is even available in .44 Magnum. The .38 Special can also be found and two of my favorite easy shooting PCCs are the replica Model 1866 chambered in .38 Special as well as a very rare .44 Special.
In the period between the two World Wars El Tigre 1892 .44-40 carbines were produced under a license from Winchester in South America. In the 1950s these could be purchased for $39.95, however I waited 50 years too long and had to pay more than 20 times this much to get an excellent example. The bonus is it outshoots my original Winchester 1892. In the 1980s, I believe, the first examples of the excellent Rossi replicas of the Model 1892 began arriving. These have been offered in .44-40, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, and .357 Magnum. I recently purchased a stainless steel version of the latter, had the barrel cut back to 16-1/4”, added a Lyman Model 66A receiver sight, and had the stock refinished to make it a weather-beating match to the stainless steel finish. This could easily be the Perfect PCC.
About the same time Rossi was bringing forth their replica 1892s, Browning also offered the Model B92 chambered in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. These are beautifully fitted and finished PCCs and worth looking for on the used gun market. Uberti has also offered a long line up of Replica Model 1892s in several barrel lengths, including those with octagon barrels, and chamberings such as .45 Colt and .44 Magnum. Winchester also now offers their Miroku-produced Model 1892 in most chamberings at various times including .38-40. These are also beautifully fitted and finished, perhaps even better examples that the originals.
Currently Henry Repeating Arms also offers PCCs chambered in .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and is the only manufacturer to offer a .327 Magnum version. I recently purchased three lever action .357 Magnum carbines from three different manufacturers. Two of them had very heavy trigger pulls of 7-1/2 to 8 pounds as well as somewhat gritty actions. They were usable as is, however I had to have both of them smoothed up with the trigger pulls reduced to satisfy my levergun shooting soul. I can do pretty good work with heavy trigger pulls, however it takes a lot more concentration. The Henry .357 Magnum was ready to go right out of the box.
The main emphasis here has been on traditional leverguns for the simple reason that is where my heart is. However, others of note have also been offered in the past. Perhaps, most shooters feel as I do as these versions did not last very long. Marlin offered their Levermatic Lever action with a concealed hammer and chambered in .256 Winchester, .22 Jet, and .30 Carbine. Ruger also offered the same style lever action chambered in .44 Magnum. Earlier Ruger tried to go modern with their semi-automatic .44 Magnum Deerstalker Carbine which was and is a very handy carbine especially for hunting in brush and deep timber for such as deer, black bear, and most assuredly feral hogs. There was also a second version, the Deerfield, offered for a short time, however this one is also out of production.
I recently took stock of what PCCs lever-action style I have had extensive experience with and came up with the following chamberings in Marlin, Winchester, Browning, Rossi, Uberti and El Tigre leverguns. In order from smallest to largest those are .32 Magnum, .32-20, .327 Magnum, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .38-40, .41 Magnum, .44-40, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt. I was even able to fire the original .454 chambered Winchester 1894 as well as a comparable Marlin. Both actions proved to be inadequate to handle the high pressures of the .454, however Rossi did make it work. None of these .454s can be called pleasant to shoot. Bighorn Armory now offers their lever action in both .500 S&W, not really a pistol-length cartridge, and .475 Linebaugh, however at this stage of my life though I might really like to experience them this is a case where the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.
My favorite rifles are leverguns, and my favorite leverguns are the Trappers, that is those with barrel lengths of 16-1/4”. Before government in its infinite wisdom made shorter lengths illegal factories offered barrel lengths such as 12” and 14” which would certainly be exceptionally handy. My all around Perfect Rifle is a PCC levergun chambered in .357 Magnum and outfitted as the above-mentioned stainless steel Rossi. Properly loaded it also makes a very effective home defense rifle. Especially in such a situation I appreciate the fact I’m in control of loading the next cartridge into the chamber. There is nothing I am likely to encounter in my area that cannot be handled with a .357 levergun such as this, and if I ever wander into a more challenging environment I can always reach for a Trapper in .44 Magnum or set up for Heavy .45 Colt.
Good Looking Shooter
by Dave B , Alamogordo New Mexico, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 10:06 (966 days ago) @ JimT
That is a fair amount of work you accomplished, I certainly appreciate the skill it took.
Dave
Thanks Dave. I am enjoying it!
by JimT, Texas, Saturday, April 02, 2022, 10:52 (966 days ago) @ Dave B
Long before Rossi
by Charles, Monday, April 04, 2022, 11:37 (964 days ago) @ JimT
or anyone else made lever carbines in 357 Mag, a gunsmith in Douglas AZ named Ward Koozer rebored and modified 25-20 and 32-20 Win 92s to 357 Mag. About 1961 a local army surplus and pawn shop had a couple of dozen of ratty 92s that came out of Mexico. I bought a rifle in 25-20 and sent it to Koozer. Before it went, I drawfiled the octagon barrel as they edges were pretty worn. Koozer did his magic and shortened the barrel to 18 inches. I put a Lyman receiver sight on it, and used it for some years. It was a javelina killing Jessie. After a few years, I sold it to some guy who wanted it bad enough to pry me loose from it.