Have you ever seen one of these?

by Paul ⌂, Saturday, July 17, 2021, 08:16 (1226 days ago)
edited by Paul, Saturday, July 17, 2021, 11:50

Up in the US with the multitudinous choices of firearms, it's hard to keep track of what's what and what's available. Have any of you ever run across one of these?


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Never seen one (nm)

by cubrock, Saturday, July 17, 2021, 11:45 (1225 days ago) @ Paul

nm

had to Bing it. A blank gun?

by Miles Fortis ⌂ @, CIVITATES AMERICAE, Saturday, July 17, 2021, 20:09 (1225 days ago) @ Paul

Seriously, what would one want one for, to scare off a badguy?

Not exactly...

by Paul ⌂, Monday, July 19, 2021, 09:25 (1223 days ago) @ Miles Fortis

Here's some information on the genre:

9x22 PAK

Here in Coffee Country they have two designations:

9mm P.A.K. - blank firing, solid barrel
9mm P.A. - Less lethal rubber ball ammunition - pass through barrel

This one is of the second variety. It fires a 9 mm ball through a (roughly) 5 mm barrel. This creates the pressure needed to work the slide (blowback action). Accuracy at 10 meters leaves a lot to be desired.

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These were shot with my arms over a rest. As you can see there's a LOT of dispersion. They say that this brand ("Rubber Ball") is the highest power ammunition available here, but Ózkursan brand is more accurate. Time will tell. My supplier was out of Ózkursan. The problem here is like trying to throw a balloon as fast as possible. It's hard to control the direction it's going. Gently push the same balloon and it will float fairly accurately (all things considered) over the same distance.

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So I moved up to 3 or 4 meters and shot off hand. Nice, ragged, one hole group. It's a bit low and to the left, but good consistency at this distance. I'm really curious as to what the other brand is capable of accuracy wise. Also, we didn't shoot it that much yesterday, just 15 rounds for familiarization. A friend has one of these that he's put over 5,000 rounds through without a bobble of any kind.

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Here's the last rounds shot yesterday. I had my wife try it at the same 3 or 4 meter distance. And this is the main purpose of such an implement - a training device. She's not a shooter and it's been a while since she'd shot anything at all. Recoil is similar or even less than that of a 22 LR pistol of same size. Essentially you only feel the movement of the slide. She did well, considering she's not shot anything like this in years.

If one were to use such a thing for defense, aiming for the reproductive system of a male attacker is about the only hope of stopping an attack, as an impact to that region would be essentially a blow to the "central nervous system" - if you get my drift. Not a death blow, but the only forlorn hope of any effectiveness.

Lars of Survival Russia on YouTube has a Makarov similar

by Bob Hatfield @, Wednesday, July 21, 2021, 17:54 (1221 days ago) @ Paul

that fires rubber bullets. It is a self defense weapon and the only handgun that he can have in Siberia. He cant even take a shotgun in the woods unless it is hunting season. His rubber bullet firing Makarov is slightly larger than a regular Makarov. It is probably not made by Makarov but looks like one . It shoots a 9mm rubber bullet if I remember correctly. He has a really neat channel and does a lot of neat stuff in his corner of Siberia. The channel is called Survival Russia. Lars is Danish but has a Russian wife.

Bob

Lars of Survival Russia on YouTube has a Makarov similar

by Paul ⌂, Wednesday, July 21, 2021, 18:58 (1221 days ago) @ Bob Hatfield

From what I've gathered so far, Russia, Italy, Turkey and maybe Ukraine make this type of firearm, designed to shoot only blanks or rubber projectiles. In a lot of places they only allow blank guns, others allow rubber projectiles like this one shoots. I wish we had more options on the ammo, but plan to test whatever I can come up with. The preliminary results at 3 or 4 meters show promise, not sure yet how I'll regulate the sites - or may just leave them be. A Makarov or 1911 style would be preferable to me, but we don't have a lot to choose from. I may try and trade for a "Desert Eagle" style a fellow club member offered me. We'll see what happens. He's got a couple others as well that may be more interesting. So far all I've seen here are of Turkish origin.

Lars of Survival Russia on YouTube has a Makarov similar

by RayLee, Wednesday, July 28, 2021, 06:57 (1215 days ago) @ Paul

I was recently watching an episode of this.....https://www.netflix.com/title/80166471

Actually watching and reading the english subtitles as its dialog is russian. The theme is a terminally ill sociopathic and psychotic f.s.b. major investigates and solves serial murders with the help of a willowy 22 year old chica.

The chica carries a realistic looking makarov with an empty chamber. When danger looms near she deftly and effortlessly peels back the slide with those wispy cruella de ville fingers. My b.s. meter instantly raised a red flag. Anybody with a real makarov knows the substantial grip and wrist and forearm strength needed to cycle a real makarov.

While cleaning the gun, there was a close shot of her loading the magazine and the ammo looked exactly like the rubber ball depicted above which explains the easy slide action.

Lars of Survival Russia on YouTube has a Makarov similar

by Paul ⌂, Wednesday, July 28, 2021, 07:32 (1215 days ago) @ RayLee

Indeed the recoil springs on these are of the less than substantial variety. I've briefly seen various items about attempting to set one up for use with regular ammunition. So far none have addressed the issue of a recoil spring sufficient to keep it from beating itself to death in short order. I've also not found any regular cartridge that would fit in the magazine.

Yesterday I stopped at a new store in town. There I examined an Ekol Viper 4" barreled revolver. Now the curiosity is really kicking in. The main problem is the lack of 380R P.A.K. ammunition on the market. To obtain a box there of I'd have had to purchase the gun and they'd no more ammo to sell than that one box per pistol. The barrel restriction in the Viper is much less than in the TR92K and other semiautos. My guess is that's due to not needing to generate blowback to operate the slide such as is required in the bottom feeders. The barrel/cylinder gap was quite close, lockup was not that great. But from the idea of actually projecting a projectile worth projecting it appears to be a better platform.

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