Thoughts and questions re: 22 Rimfire Mag in sixgun
by Art 
, Littleton, Colorado, Wednesday, June 06, 2012, 19:29 (4554 days ago)
I am starting to wonder about the usefullness of the 22 Magnum in a hand gun. The following are the advertized m.v.
Remington Magnum Rim Fire-40gr-1,970 FPS
CCI MaxiMag-40gr-1,875 FPS
versus
Aquila Super Maximum 22 Long Rifle 30gr @ 1,750 FPS
I relize that the respective m.v. are lower in a handgun then the advertized claims which I am sure are from rifles. Also, I relize that the 22 Magnum has better constructed bullets then the long rifle but I for one am not using a 22 hand gun for larger animals. If so I would use a center fire.
I wish I had access to a chrono to compare the m.v. of the magnum to the Aguila long rifle. I wonder how close they would be in my 4 5/8 Super Single Six?
Has anyone done such a comparison? I would be very interested in the results.
Regards
Art
I am going to sit back and watch this one play out.....
I have seen comparisons in magazines
by bj , Wednesday, June 06, 2012, 19:50 (4554 days ago) @ Art
IIRC the article that I saw was comparing velocities for very short barrel handguns though. It seems that as the barrels get shorter there is less difference between velocities of LR and WMR rounds.
I have seen comparisons in magazines
by Art , Littleton, Colorado, Wednesday, June 06, 2012, 20:01 (4554 days ago) @ bj
That is my suspicison especialy with that super velocity Aguila and my 4 5/8 inch barrel.
If memory serves out of my 4 5/8" single six , .22 mag. is
by ESisk , Thursday, June 07, 2012, 01:04 (4554 days ago) @ Art
150-300 fps faster than .22 lr depending on which brands you are comparing. The high vel .22 lr's usually have a light 30 gr. lead bullet while the .22 mags are heavier 40-45gr jacketed bullet. The combination of 200 fps and 10-15 grain heavier bullet is significant. I am a fan of the 22 WMR (can you tell) Best power and value in a round I don't have to reload. If you are just plinking the 22 lr is fine But when shooting vermin in the 10 to 30 pound range the 22 WMR is a better choice. I keep .22 WMR shots under 60 yards. .22lr shots under 40 yards against 10 pound or less critters. My 9" single six is less handy but adds 15 yards to both rounds. In a rifle thw WMR is a 100 yard round while the .22 lr is a 75 yard round at best. One of the places I hunt feral pigs is public land with rimfire only regulations so the WMR is the obvious choice there. I just bought two boxes of Hornadys 22 WMR Critical Defense 45 gr. FTX at the local Cabela's but have not tried them on any critters yet. All this Just my 2 pennies worth of course.
.22 Mag.....I can not help myself from a rising to the bait.
It seems to me that the .22 Mag in practical pistols.....less than 6" barrels...is a round betwist and between...a little more powerful than high perfromance Long Rifles....much much more expensive....etc...etc...etc...
For the life of me I can not see where a .22 Mag handgun is in anyway preferable to a high quality .38/.357 or 9mm pistol of the same size....center fire ammo more widely available at a greater range of style from cheap surplus ball (less expensive than .22 Mag) to atom bomb killer loads....reloadable if one so desires...etc...etc...etc....
Regarding the effectivness of the .22 Automag on a naughty knife wielding punk....Mr Kelly' relitives in the Emrald Isle have been using .22 rf for years with complete satisfaction in IRA kneecapping those who do not agree with them...a .22 Short would have worked just as well if placed against the kneecap and fired.....
Byron
.22 Mag.....I can not help myself from a rising to the bait.
by Art , Littleton, Colorado, Thursday, June 07, 2012, 14:40 (4553 days ago) @ Byron
I am leaning towards your point of view. I am trying to cut back on my number of handguns. I have a neat little no dash 4 inch S&W 617 and am starting to wonder the usefullness of my Single Six. I have a 357,41,44 and 45 Colt along with a couple of semi autos. I reload for all. I am not going to run off and dump the 22 mag but will continue to think about it.
Art
.22 Mag.....I can not help myself from a rising to the bait.
by Paul 
, Thursday, June 07, 2012, 15:12 (4553 days ago) @ Art
Art, I don't know how often you get out and about. When I visit NW CO there's a ranch I stop at where we fish, run wild and have a great time. The OM Single Six with 22 Mag cylinder packs easily on my belt. It's great for muskrat and other vermin - and shoots nice and flat with low recoil enabling one to take longer shots than the 22 LR will. Yes, you can get as flat shooting in centerfire - but you're going to have a lot more recoil. You can use a 22 LR in a rifle and get the same effect - but that really isn't very handy to pack along. Same place - the 45 Vaquero or the Taurus 44 spl ride along on the other side of the belt in case Yogi gets frisky or a puma decides to vary its diet. A 12 gauge with slugs might do better for such a job, as would a 30-30, '06 or (fill in the blank) - but the 44 or 45 is THERE, right on my belt instead of leaned up against a tree or back in the truck. This is one of those rounds that some folks love to hate. It makes no sense on paper. But it works fine for what it is used for by those of us who use it instead of poo-pooing it. There's no perfect packing pistol - but the search goes on. I'm looking forward to strapping on the OM SS and the Vaquero and doing some trout fishing this fall. The 22 mag is MUCH more likely to see action there than the 45 Colt.
As always - YMMV...
Nice and flat.....
If sighted dead on at 50 yards:
.22 Mag from a 6" pistol is 6.5" low at 100...
.22 Long Rifle from 6" pistol is 8.0" low at 100..
9mm Nato spec from 4" pistol is 6.0" low at 100...
Over the years we have had to shoot way too many dogs that have been dropped off "for the farmers to take care of" who then packed up...not good for the live stock....I am a dog lover from way back but shoot these mutts on sight...
It is obvious that a .22 rifle (.22 Mag pistol power)is at best minimal for a clean shot on a medium size dog standing still at 50 yards...it will kill them but not cleanly....remember Scott's badger he shot at arms length with 18 rounds from a long barreled .22 pistol....22s just don't hit real hard...
A 9mm will drop them in their tracks hit anywhere in the chest...a dramatic difference....and anyone full grown should not even notice the recoil of a 9mm service pistol if they are really paying attention to the shot....
Byron
Donations of 9mm's are welcome.
by Paul , Thursday, June 07, 2012, 17:00 (4553 days ago) @ Byron
.
It is rather amusing, by the way...
by Paul , Thursday, June 07, 2012, 17:11 (4553 days ago) @ Byron
that someone who uses a mousegun for deer sneers at those of us who use a mousegun for varmints. :)
It is rather amusing, by the way...
That anyone would consider the 5.56mm and M262 round in particular a "mousegun" given the fact that it has been killing hundreds and hundreds of thousands of our men for over 50 years and is the undisputed choice of Camp Perry service rifle shooters in long range matches....
I shoot deer (lots of them) with whatever amuses me...from 5.56mm and.375 H&H to 12 bore rifles and 9mm to .475 Linebaugh pistols....
I sneer at no one....just expressing my opinion that for killing any thing larger than small game cleanly under field conditions, a .22 rf rifle (or .22 Mag in a pistol)is mimimal and better choices are readily available....
Byron
It is rather amusing, by the way...
by Paul , Thursday, June 07, 2012, 18:29 (4553 days ago) @ Byron
I realize that the internet does not always lend itself to clear communication. You often come across as overbearing and opinionated. That's fine, I'm opinionated myself. The 22 rf has accounted for more game of all sizes than any centerfire (all centerfires together, perhaps?) over the decades of its existence. The 22 mag performs well - yes, even out of a pistol - in defiance of its "paper ballistics". You pays your money, you takes your choice.
So what........
"The 22 rf has accounted for more game of all sizes than any centerfire (all centerfires together, perhaps?)"
This statement is meaningless....
The locker plant down the road kills a semi of beef every Monday where a high school kid with a .22 Marlin up in the rafters shoots the steers with the muzzle touching the base of the skull...what does that prove...that 22s are good for killing 1000 lb cows....not really...lot of game killed with 22s...much not killed cleanly...is there a better way...sure...
"The 22 mag performs well - yes, even out of a pistol - in defiance of its "paper ballistics"."
Performs well compared to what? As good as a 9mm/38?..no way....it's expensive....noisy...22 rifle power...9mm shoots the same or flatter at 100 yards....many have .22 Mag pistols that they use with satisfaction....still...if one was to start from scratch...with open options...it would seem to me to pick something more versital....same price for pistol...similar cost of ammo...wider range of ammo...is there ANYTHING that a 22 Mag pistol can do better than a 4" K38/M19?....I can't think of a thing....
My point continues to be...given a job...what is the best tool...given options...
I know you live on a mountain top Utopia...I live out in the American sticks....I probabaly shot more last weekend that you did in the last year (or more)....
Think I'm "overbearing and opinionated"...
I think you are naive and sarcastic....
Byron
So what........
by Paul , Thursday, June 07, 2012, 22:03 (4553 days ago) @ Byron
"The 22 rf has accounted for more game of all sizes than any centerfire (all centerfires together, perhaps?)"
"This statement is meaningless...."
Only meaningless to those who don't understand it. Have you ever lived by what you can grow or shoot - ONLY? Hand to mouth, each shot must count? Each penny must stretch so thin it's pretty nigh transparent? You may have, but I doubt it. In those situations then the lowly 22 is pressed into use - not shooting 1000 pound cows at contact distance but rather bringing in game. That is hunting, not shooting. It's what ever it takes to fill the pot, not "sporting".
"The 22 mag performs well - yes, even out of a pistol - in defiance of its "paper ballistics"."
"Performs well compared to what?"
Again, you cherry pick what you want to see. The 30-30, '06, etc can be shown to be superior to the 5.56 mm for shooting deer - if you pick and choose your data right. And the 30 caliber centerfire (generic term covering many chamberings) has likely accounted for several times more dead men than the 22 centerfire. There's always "something better" somewhere.
"My point continues to be...given a job...what is the best tool...given options..."
My point is ... not everyone has options to pick from. They've got what they've got and that's it.
"I know you live on a mountain top Utopia..."
Actually, I live in a mountain valley near the mean streets, right down the concrete canyon from anything BUT a utopia.
"I probabaly shot more last weekend that you did in the last year (or more)...."
Good for you.
"Think I'm "overbearing and opinionated"... I think you are naive and sarcastic...."
Naive - "marked by unaffected simplicity" Thank you.
Sarcasm - "a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain " if that is the impression I give, I apologize. I do not design to give pain by anything I write.
Thank you....
The concept of filling the pot by shooting animals with a .22 and hoping they will die just never occured to me.
My understanding of the original post was whether or not the .22 was the optimum choice for a field gun or if one of his other more powerful pistols might be more versitile sidearm.
Clearly, your search for the lowest common denominator vs my quest for excellance is the fundimental reason we just can not get along.
Peace,
Byron
Actually...
by Paul , Friday, June 08, 2012, 14:43 (4552 days ago) @ Byron
I am not the only one in this thread that has expressed the opinion that the 22 mag is a useful cartridge - even out of a sixgun. Yet I am the one who benefits by your personal attention. Why? Not sure. You claim I seek the lowest common denominator whereas I seek to utilize that which is at hand rather than spending funds on something new. Perhaps it irks you that I do not think like you, or you assume that because I live in another country that I have no personal knowledge of the subject matter on this forum or ??? I don't know anything for sure about it but that somehow I stick in your craw. I can live with that. :) Art's got himself a 22 mag, I expressed the opinion that it can serve him well in CO - as mine has done for me in the same territory. He, of course, is free to use it, trade it, sell it or toss it in the river as he sees fit. That is the beauty of living in a relatively free country. Shucks, I can even irritate some folks simply by breathing, another benefit of freedom I suppose.
Thoughts and questions re: 22 Rimfire Mag in sixgun
by Bob Hatfield , Thursday, June 07, 2012, 16:33 (4553 days ago) @ Art
I have a Single Six in 22 Magnum and I think it is really practical use here in the woods in West Virginia. My favorite load is Winchester 40 grain JHP. THey chronograph right around 1500 fps and I do believe they penetrate very well. Plus as much as I love .357 and 45 Blackhawks, during small game season I can carry a 50 round box of 22 mag very easily, plus the gun will print the 40 gr JHP right to point of aim at 25 yards with nice small round groups.
Bob
I don't want to get into the furball, BUT
I have several .22LR handguns and treasure them for plinking and fun. IF I had to use one of them for anything serious and had nothing else, I would just do the best I could with it. However, I will not willingly shoot any live critter larger than a rabbit with a .22LR. This is from many years of experience shooting .22s. The .22LR is just not powerful enough to kill quickly and cleanly with anything except a brain shot, and I do not trust myself to shoot that well in every case.
The only .22 handgun I regularly carry is a beat-up 3-screw Single-Six I picked up at a gun show a few years ago. I USED to be of the opinion that the .22 Magnum was useless in a handgun, and the fact that this one did not have a magnum cylinder did not bother me a bit. A few months back I found a magnum cylinder in a bucket of rusty tools at a flea market and bought it for $8. Since then I have discovered that I was wrong about the magnum cartridge. It adds just enough punch to a .22 handgun to make it an effective killer on stuff up to coyote and feral dog size at reasonable handgun range. Even the CCI .22 WRF with the 45 grain JHP is a useful improvement over the .22LR, and that round is what I carry in the Ruger.
I will still be found carrying a centerfire handgun most of the time, because that's what I like, but the Single Six has turned into a useful gun instead of a plaything with the addition of the magnum cylinder.
Just my $0.02.
Agree with Catoosa
During the mid 80's and on into the '90's there was a extreme problem with Jackrabbits in southern Wyoming. You could whack 'em with a 22lr using a rifle, but they certainly could soak up alot of ammo before going down. When one fellow showed up with a 22Mag rifle it was one shot one kill all day long. Next time out everyone had 22mag's and we never looked back. You can look at all the paper ballistics and read all the BS in gun rags, but 'out there' the 22Mag is king. A pretty keen reloadable 22Mag is the 25/20 Marlin 1884CL using a 80 gr CB. I love the 22lr in all the configurations available, but when there is vermin to put on the ground, the 22Mag is the right tool for the job.
But, but, but...
by Paul , Friday, June 08, 2012, 08:56 (4552 days ago) @ Bud
The 25-20 would make a dandy packin' pistol in a OM Single Six sized package. Keith was of the opinion that the old Stevens 25 Rimfire was superior to the 22 Mag, but it went the way of the dodo. Personally, I'd be tickled to play with the 22 velodog in a modern sixgun configuration, it seems like it'd be essentially a reloadable 22 mag.
Does anyone make a 25-20 handgun anymore?
No....but
Hamilton Bowen, Alan Hardon, Ben Forkin, etc, etc can put one together for your for less than the price of a ranch in Texas.
I'm too attached to my kidneys... (nt)
by Paul , Friday, June 08, 2012, 10:04 (4552 days ago) @ Bud
.
Now if we could just...
by Paul , Friday, June 08, 2012, 10:05 (4552 days ago) @ Bud
convince Lipsey's to have Ruger build some up. Like they did with the small frame 44 spl, for example. :)
I'd settle for a 25 Hornet...
Just cut the 22Hornet off at the shoulder, run it into a 25Hornet die, trim and you're in business. But why go to all the trouble when a 32H&R or 327Fed will do same job.
I'd settle for a 25 Hornet...
by Paul , Friday, June 08, 2012, 10:36 (4552 days ago) @ Bud
I've never looked at the 25 Hornet. The 327 is an interesting idea, I've liked the 32's since I was a kid.
Here is how to do a .32...
![[image]](http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p239/yrusik/006-1.jpg)
![[image]](http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p239/yrusik/002.jpg)
Light, handy, accurate, reloadable and useful power....a wonderful little revolver...
Byron
I've never seen anything by Linebaugh that wasn't top notch.
by Paul , Friday, June 08, 2012, 15:22 (4552 days ago) @ Byron
.