357 mag snubbie loads...

I decided to do some playing with loads for my 2.5" M19 since it gets carried a lot. Have been carrying it with 38 Specials, loaded with a 158 gr SWC over 5.0 gr Unique. This load pushes the pill out of the muzzle at around 800 fps, but I have been thinking about something that would not be too hard on the gun, but would provide a bit more oomph.

My first attempt was the a 158 gr SWC over 14 gr of 2400 in 357 mag cases. Everything I read said this would be a moderately stout load with my older can of powder, but well within the K-frames ability to handle. I do not know what the velocity was, but the extraction was sticky and the primer showed signs of excessive pressure. I tried it in a Contender with the same result so pulled the rest I had loaded and decided to drop back and try to work back up.

The next attempt was the same bullet and case, loaded with 12 gr of 2400. The cases dropped right out of the cylinders and hit to nearly the same point of aim as the 38 Specials. Ran them over the Chrony and was surprised to see them averaging about 1150 fps.

Am now thinking I need to go back and confirm all the parameters to see why these loads seem to be hotter than expected. Am using WW standard primers, crimping in the crimp groove and using powder from an older lot of 2400. Am going to double check the bullets first to make sure they are what is written on the label and not encroaching too deeply into the cases.

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1150 fps surprised me with that short bbl. I sold my smith like yours because vel was low compared to blast flash and recoil. I have the 44 sp now and don't use it much at all not enough pew pew . you must be doing something right to get those results. I went to swaged hp at 850 in the end.

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Maybe I am a bit jaded, but find these loads very comfortable, if a bit loud, out of the snubbie. Of course, what I carried for years was a 629 Mountain Revolver, loaded with either 20 gr of 2400 or 8 gr of Unique under a 240 gr SWC, depending on the situation. It still gets the nod frequently, particularly since I have not really settled on a load for the 19 yet. The smaller, lighter K-frame snub is a real joy to carry in comparison. I found an older Rogers paddle holster and some Rogers grips that work out just right for me. The larger N-frame requires more fore-thought in carry methods and is not so easy to conceal in most situations.

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on that. That was not good for the ears or hands. I ended up with either the FBI load or Remington's 125 gr. .357 Mag Golden Saber load that is sort of equals a .38 Special +P but not a full effort like the Federal 125 gr.

This might not be a concern to this board's members but is to some and inevitably comes up, but I don't normally carry handloads in self-defense firearms. I really like the 158 gr. 5 gr. Unique load but only carry that in the field and to or from such. I doubt that it would ever be a legal question but Murphy rides in my back pocket and I'd rather not chance it more than necessary. When in the field or traveling to or from I can at least argue that it is simply what I had with no intent to use it but was forced to if it should ever come to that.

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Sincerely,

Hobie

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Have heard all the debates, but I live and work mostly in rural areas and am at least as concerned with encountering black bears as I am people. When I have to work in less rural areas, it usually requires me to carry something less conspicuous, so a 380 usually gets the nod then, and it uses factory fodder.

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Sincerely,

Hobie

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14 gr of 2400 was a full snot load for me back in the old days of 2400. It gave 1350-1450 fps depending on the firearm. I'm not surprised by your extraction results. For the snubbie's I like a faster powder; I favor 231 and 140 gr pills.

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I am planning to try some other powders, just had the Unique and 2400 on hand, so figured they were a good starting point. The muzzle flash and blast from the 2400 is pretty impressive, but sort of expected that with any load that would generate 1000+ fps from the short bbl.

Interesting that 14 gr was a heavy load for you. My reading showed loads up to 15.5 gr behind the 158 gr SWC listed by reputable sources. Lots of sources list 14 gr as a good, safe, moderate magnum load.

My goal is a load that would be easy enough to shoot regularly out of the K-frame without causing too much stress on it, yet provide sufficient oomph for dealing with any serious issue which may show up, including possibly black bear, which are fairly common here. At 1150 fps I may even consider trying to hunt whitetails at archery distances of under 50 yards. Have not put it on paper, but it has not missed 2"x4" swinging steel plates at 25 yards yet.

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Your velocities match what I would expect for those loads. 14 grains is a full pressure load, and with some guns and bullets, more than a full pressure load... Your 12 grain load is producing velocities at the upper end of what I would expect for your barrel length....

For K frame 357's, I try to load 158 SWC's to around 1,000 fps to 1,050 fps... Plenty powerful for anything that I want to shoot with a 357, but still easy on the gun and the shooter. You can do this with lots of different powders ranging from Unique to 2400. I usually use 6.2 grains of Unique, though lots of other powders work just as well......

Personally, I like 3" and 4" K frame 357's. Full length extractor rod, plus perfect balance....

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Thank you for your input. My research indicated this load should've been in the 1000 to 1050 fps range out of the 2.5" bbl, which is my target velocity. I wanted to try 2400 because it has proven to produce very accurate loads in my 44 magnums. Unique does a great job, but 2400 seems to cut the groups significantly. I have a several targets with sub-1" groups at 25 yards and 1.5" groups at 50 yards, using 2400 in two S&W 629's. The Unique loads are no slouch at around 1.5" groups at 25 yards, and under 3" at 50, but not quite as good as the 2400. The 5 gr Unique 38 Spl load has proven to be pretty accurate from the 19 and I have used it to head shoot a couple squirrels already.

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That is entirely believable, depending on amount of bullet inside the case - something near .50". One of my Lymans runs about .430" and goes about 75fps slower with 12grs of 2400. Assuming cast.

Other, perhaps related info -

Try it on paper just to make sure it stabilizes. My favorite 357 load is the 170gr keith @ 1350fps from a OM, so since I keep a lot on hand, I tried it in my Scandium 357mag. It keyholes, but it shoots ok at ten yards.

Second, try your cast bullets at night with a flashlight. I was carrying 230gr HPs in my 1911 until the night I tried it... the light bounced off the lube smoke and I could see nothing but a white wall... good thing it was only a diller.

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This is just the preliminary look at these loads. There is yet to be quite a bit of testing before I would consider them for more serious purposes. Next step is definitely to put them on paper, out to at least 50 yards. As for night shooting, am pretty sure these would not be a top pick, just because of the muzzle flash alone, which is noticeable even in sunshine.

Was thinking of these as more for field carry. I am a biologist who works around wetlands and have been impressed with the accuracy of this 19 with 38 spl reloads. This led me to thinking it would be fun to see what loads could be worked up with a bit more oomph, yet be safe to use regularly in this older (approx 1972) M19-2.

I have been carrying a 629 Mountain Revolver for this role, and am completely confident in it's capabilities, but it is a bit more difficult to carry and conceal comfortably all day. It still will be used when concealability is not as important.

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