Speaking of high ammo volumes...
by Hoot 
, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Monday, November 14, 2016, 13:49 (2869 days ago)
A buddy shared with me some production numbers. The outfit he works for produces 6,127,500 rounds of .22
.
.
.
per DAY.
And they are currently working to add production to quadruple that number.
Interesting...can you share which company? NT
by Bryan 
, Ft Worth, TX, Monday, November 14, 2016, 14:19 (2869 days ago) @ Hoot
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I'd rather not say so publically Bryan.
by Hoot , Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Tuesday, November 15, 2016, 06:30 (2868 days ago) @ Bryan
I don't know the level of confidentiality involved. I will say those numbers include hunting, target and birdshot varieties with target being about 62% of the total (~3.8M).
So the question is
"where is all that ammo going?" I can't imagine that there are 7,000,000 rounds of recreational .22 fired per day in the US.
So are they being stockpiled by agencies? Sold to foreign markets? Hoarded by distributors awaiting the Great Panic of '16?
Interesting.
Well, there's a difference between buying and shooting. NT
by Bryan , Ft Worth, TX, Monday, November 14, 2016, 14:52 (2869 days ago) @ BC
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I'm guessing all of the above, plus
by bj , Monday, November 14, 2016, 19:44 (2869 days ago) @ BC
I'm told there are a lot of private hoarders out there.
I'm discounting the hoarders more and more each day- how many people can afford to spend $50 or more every week to buy out the local WalMart and put it in the closet. This has been going on for many years and with the up and down economy across parts of the country, you would think that eventually some of these people would need the money more than they would need 100k of .22LR and they would start selling. I haven't seen or heard of anyone selling. You go to gun shows down here and there is none for sale. I check a few online stores occasionally and they don't have anything in stock except for the expensive target ammo that costs more than good centerfire ammo.
playing with numbers
by bj , Monday, November 14, 2016, 20:11 (2869 days ago) @ bj
so one factory makes about 6 million/day...
There appear to be at least 6 major manufacturers, so that is 42M/day, which is 15,300M/year.
Now how many people are buying significant numbers? Some online sources say there might be 100M gun owners in America, so how many are out there buying up ammo? For grins lets say 4M are buying up significant numbers.
15,300M/year divided by 4M buyers = 3,800 rounds/year. This doesn't seem unreasonable. I'm sure some people shoot that much per year, and if you are strictly hoarding maybe you can afford $300/year.
Now this has been going on for 4 years or more, so the average hoarder might have $1,200 invested, to just sit in their closet. I can't afford to do that but maybe some people can. But then I have to work every day so I can't sit at WalMart waiting for the stock to come in. The person that is hoarding may not have a full time job which allows them to be at WalMart in the morning to check the arrivals. Without full time income they might be less interested in having their money just sitting in the closet.
But this seems to show that a possibly realistic number of hoarders could soak up a lot of ammo and deny the average user from being able to buy any.
It's amazing to me that companies haven't stepped up their production before now. I work in an industry with a lot of competition, there is more supply than demand. I can't imagine working in an industry where there was money there for the taking, all you had to do was to produce more product.
Supply/demand
by Hoot , Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Tuesday, November 15, 2016, 07:01 (2868 days ago) @ bj
"It's amazing to me that companies haven't stepped up their production before now. I work in an industry with a lot of competition, there is more supply than demand. I can't imagine working in an industry where there was money there for the taking, all you had to do was to produce more product."
The company I mention above has a single assembly line for .22's. They run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with 5 shifts. I have taken a tour of the plant and it is a HUGE operation. They have been working at least the last few years on building parallel lines for the increased production but, as it is a very large investment, it takes time. Yep, they've had a minimum of 8 years to implement it but I expect some of that time was spent wondering if the demand would remain. I expect, with the new president elect, if they are now worrying if the demand will remain.
Oh yeah, that tour? If any of you EVER gets the chance, take it! By far the most fascinating tour I have ever had.
playing with numbers
I agree, Kathryn and I were going through 10-15K per year for a while. Since everything went crazy 6 years of so ago, I have maybe bought 10,000 rounds and still have most of it. It sounds like I a man stockpiling but when you compare to what we use to buy and shoot it is a drop I need the bucket. I refuse to pay more than $.06 a shot for bulk .22 so I think is hard to find. I check the local Walmart when I can and have got to know some of the workers. They are telling me they get a small shipment of bricks in maybe once every week or two, and they are never sure when that will ,come in. So the shortage Is running up the supply's line as well. A couple of Walmart actually took the space for rimfore ammo and are using it for other things now since they so seldom get ammo in.
Yep.
by Hobie , Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, Tuesday, November 15, 2016, 17:47 (2868 days ago) @ Jared
A friend and I go to the range every Thursday. We shoot targets, steel and the breeze. Including our participation in 50 yard .22 LR benchrest, we've shot over 5K rounds of .22 LR in addition to many other rounds.
Yet, I have felt a need to get what I can when I can with the cost per round being a limiting factor.
I don't know how many shooters have 10K+ in storage but expect that many benchrest guys do, although they are often selling off less than satisfactory lots at the various shoots. I know of maybe 15 or so shooters with 30K+ in storage, some with beaucoup $ and some with not much of anything else except the rifle (usually a 10/22) to shoot it.
I know of one man who only uses 50-rounds a year who could not get "his" box at the beginning of the year just by walking into a gun store. So, he cast about for a bit and bought a full case of that ammo. He might not buy any more but he paid the "whatever" price just to ensure he was not going to come up short.
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Sincerely,
Hobie
Hoarders and Scalpers...
by Sarge , Central Misery, Monday, November 14, 2016, 20:44 (2869 days ago) @ BC
I've known guys who bought the limit and dragged their family to Walmart to buy 22 ammo, time after time. Most of them were 'stocking up' for when Obama cancelled the 2nd Amendment, or something equally crazy.
There was a local gun shop who had a half-dozen henchmen lined up buying 22, so he could stock it at 2-3 times the price.
Seen all these and open air market vendors buying bricks for $27 dollars and putting it in the table for $75.
That's why there ain't no 22 ammo.
Hoarders and Scalpers...
by Slow Hand , Indiana, Tuesday, November 15, 2016, 04:33 (2868 days ago) @ Sarge
I know a couple of newer, smaller shops have been doing just that. Make buddies with the Wal Mart sporting goods guys and go buy it all up when it comes in. We have a Gander Mountain close by and I have little use for them, as their Gun prices are crazy. But they have had a steady stream of Federal Auto match for $20/325. I have gone in there a few Wednesday afternoons and picked up five boxes of it.
I have a few thousand rounds of .22 on hand most all the time but haven't shot it as Willy nilly as I did pre Sandy Hook famine. I told myself when 'things got back to normal' I'd buy a federal bulk pack 525 rounds) a week until I had 10K or so stockpiled. Things still aren't what I'd call normal, with most of what I see in independent shops going for $.10/round, so I'll pick up this stuff when I can.
I agree on Gsnder gun prices
I have seen several cases where they were marked higher than MSRP! In most cases other stores sell significantly below that!
I agree on Gsnder gun prices
by Slow Hand , Indiana, Tuesday, November 15, 2016, 11:16 (2868 days ago) @ stonewalrus
The local one usually has a few police trade in Glocks and M&P's that are priced higher than new Guns at local
Shops!
A clarification....
by Sarge , Central Misery, Tuesday, November 15, 2016, 18:53 (2868 days ago) @ Sarge
With the ammo stupidity being what it was the last few years, I don't blame anybody for stockpiling more than they used to. I recall better times when I had a brick or two on hand and thought I had plenty. You could always get more, any time you wanted it. These days I keep 6-10 in reserve plus various 100 packs.
Hopefully with a pro-gun president and congress, the Second is safe for awhile and the panic buying will subside.
The agency hoarding piece doesn't make sense to me...
by Bryan , Ft Worth, TX, Monday, November 14, 2016, 21:09 (2869 days ago) @ BC
why would a federal agency spend their limited amount of $ on rimfire ammo? The factories aren't going to give it to them that's for sure. Every federal agency with a publicly known budget is going to be careful with their dollars and where would they hide that kind of spending? Spending $ on rimfire ammo? What for? To keep it out of the public's hands? Don't think so. Can you imagine Federal or Eley or Winchester saying sure Uncle Sam...take our ammo (even at market value) and let's see what Joe Public thinks about it.
Somehow, the demand has continually outstripped the supply for years. I also know that the Feds are not keen on new ammo plants being built. Perhaps that changes with the new administration.
I know there's been a LOT of price gouging but sometimes you don't even see much rimfire at the shows. For sure you don't see a lot of powder/primers.
Speaking of high ammo volumes...
by Cherokee , Medina, Ohio, Monday, November 14, 2016, 16:14 (2869 days ago) @ Hoot
I was in a LGS this afternoon, they had a ton of 22 LR ammo...at about 10/c per round - but they had it. My CF reloads don't cost that much.
6 mil per day - WOW and that's just one company.
Speaking of high ammo volumes...
I still shoot 5-8k a year of low end match 22( wolf/SK/CCI SV)
I usually buy a case when I open a case. I'll have 2-3 on the shelf.
I pay what I have to pay to get it, $430-$630 last few years.
Have not bought a box retail in the last 7-8 years, just order it online.
Sportsmans guide had CCI SV for 37.50 a brick a few weeks ago with no limit
Someone above mentioned Gov stockpiling,
From a reliable source, Yes the gov is still buying 22lr by the truckload and it is going to some obscure warehouse around the country.
They actually change their contract from Win and Fed a few years ago to Agilla(sp) hense the reason Agilla dissapeared off the market a few years ago.
Before to long the CMP will have millions of rounds of Agilla for sale
I'm honestly curious about the govt subject...
by Bryan , Ft Worth, TX, Wednesday, November 16, 2016, 08:23 (2867 days ago) @ bmize
you may not be able to say but this topic is always "reliable source but can't reveal...undisclosed location...can't say which agency...etc". In other words, it's never documented or confirmed. I would like to know more about a govt agency storing rimfire ammo. I can verify when Homeland Security buys a million rounds of ammo for training. Why can't I verify that an agency is buying MILLIONS of rimfire to put in a warehouse?
Also, what's your preferred online sources for target rimfire ammo? Thanks.
Ammo contracts are public record
Until someone can show me an actual contract as published in the Federal Register, I am going to continue chalking those stories as fanciful BS.
The DOD buys a paltry amount of the stuff for rifle teams, ROTC training, and the like. But that is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the civilian market. Billions of rounds sitting in a warehouse in the same fashion that the government stockpiles canned chicken? There would be a public paper trail on that.
Another data point: back during the worst of the ammo shortage, the pistol round that Fed agencies buy the most of, 40 Smith, was also the easiest to find in my area. Believe what you want.
That's how I feel about it. NT
by Bryan , Ft Worth, TX, Wednesday, November 16, 2016, 10:45 (2867 days ago) @ mcassill
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Target ammo?
by Hobie , Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, Wednesday, November 16, 2016, 21:49 (2867 days ago) @ Bryan
If I can't get it through the shop I go to Champion's Choice or Champion's Shooter Supply.
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Sincerely,
Hobie
Thanks. NT
by Bryan , Ft Worth, TX, Wednesday, November 16, 2016, 21:57 (2867 days ago) @ Hobie
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