Legal by federal law, but state laws vary. My state copies federal code verbatim. And local police aware of all that follows, but it behooves one to have at minimum a letter from Mossberg verifying shipping configuration. And laws can change.

ATF has ruled that a gun which ships from factory with a pistol grip is not a shotgun, as shotgun defined as made to be shoulder fired.

So, rifle/shotgun barrel length law does not apply, and THIS according to ATF. As far back as 2009 they were sending letters out as to it being its own class on FFL forms as "pistol grip shotgun".

This has led to PGO shotguns being made from scratch with barrels of 8". And probably will end by ruining it for everybody.

The kicker being the provision for minimum length of 26" for long guns still applies.

The Cruiser type can be as short as circa 16" barrel. This one is 4lbs 15oz, 26 3/8ths" long.

One can also find pdfs of ATF approval, and discussions of same are widespread, even in gun reviews today.. But going further than that to cover one's behind and everyone doing a modification then burying the ATF in requests for own personal letter is something I personally feel will lead to adverse nationwide action.

Better to discuss with local law enforcement so that they are aware, and let the word percolate that way to forestall problems. My opinion, anyhow.

nt

I hate cell phone distorsion, but this is a very handy gun and within an inch of being shortest possible 5-shooter.

16 for rifle. Without going NFA.

ATF has ruled this is not a shotgun. Do some net legwork and you will see this is entirely legal.

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/PistolGrippedShotgunLike.pdf

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

Slightly over 18" barrel, pistol grip, 12-gauge.

I was a young, strong, construction worker back then. I could shoot it single handedly at arms length just like a handgun. Don't think I could pull that off any longer. They are fun for shooting from the hip at trash, appliances, junk cars, etc. Not real practical for aimed fire though.

As far as the idea of having a shotgun with a barrel shorter than 18 1/4" or so... I wouldn't want to be the one to test that theory. I have a feeling that you might lose in Court.

~JM~

manufacturers are now making and selling such even shorter. I am amazed at lack of belief even when evidence plainly stated even from the ATF. Why is it that ATF rulings are ignored when favorable? Just do not want to believe? Did you even read the letters?

I quit.

x

nt

nt

it will be into a destructive device which bans all pistol grip shotguns larger than .410, OR, they amend the law and definition of shotgun. And easy to morph the gun into compliance at home with near zero skill set.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/short-barrel-no-hassle-black-aces/

everyone so accustomed to fixating on referencing off barrel length is a mistake in dealing with PGO shotgun-type firearms. Do NOT simply measure a barrel as 18.5", or read Mossberg wildly varying specs for their PGOs and figure a 2" barrel bob will be fine.

Measure as the ATF does parallel to bore and include rearmost projection of grip by utilizing a 90° angle/square to the measuring line.

Also, the ATF is specific as to stipulation that concealing such a gun, even if unmodified, turns it into an AOW as far as the feds are concerned.

that way maybe a reply? Only two negative posts with no retraction after reading through information, or even an "I'll be darned", or especially someone who knows guns agreeing post.

Just zilch. To this and the below Bagwell thread. You all must have a private club here. I had heard it a gun and knife savvy group of experts, but very little even of that. Certainly not a friendly place.

Enjoy your club.

What were we supposed to say?

I didn't learn anything new, though I did read the whole thing hoping for more information. Locally they want to treat them as handguns (licensing, paperwork and such) but the legal requirement to do so can't seem to be found. Other than the whole "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride."

ATF rulings tend to change like the wind direction.

.....I was already aware of the situation, so I had nothing to contribute. I am more interested in Form 1 SBRs, and a shorty shotgun with no butt stock just doesn't blow my skirt up.

If you are going to be upset because of one persons response, methinks you aren't too happy at any forum. I hope you stay however.

Otony

Welcome back, buh bye...

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