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I have been experimenting with heavy bullets in the Flattop. After reading the article in Handloader utilizing data at 23K PSI (45 ACP +P) levels. My goal is a sixgun for all occasions here in New Mexico, where elk top out the menu. I load the 45-270SAA bullet, and it has shot well from the Flattop, just not sure that the 290gr SWC at 900 to almost 1100 fps is medicine for elk. So I have been trying the recipe for a 320gr GC bullet at 1050, so far I haven't gotten them to shoot very well. So I am wondering if I should just accept that the FA 454 will be the dedicated handgun if elk are on the menu, and the Flattop will be for everything else, and just stick with the 290gr SWC at 1K fps. I am blessed to have so many sixgun worries.

Dave

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Got tired of the ill fitting faux ivories causing a blister, so I ordered a set of New Vaquero grips.

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I like what you chose and like oiled walnut even better!

I have never shot an elk, nor any game animal with a handgun for that matter, but my assumption is 290gr @ 1k ought to penetrate like the dickens. That said, I tend more to 'over gunned' than under so I'd probably choose something else. I mean, .45-70 is the bare minimum for red squirrels here.

You do realize we are expecting pictures, don't you?

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For squirrels, when I step up to rabbits and such, I pull out the big medicine, the Marlin 45/70 with no less than a 415gr hard cast bullet.

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I have had great success with a 335gr LFNGC bullet I cast over 12.5gr of HS6 for roughly 1050fps in my Bisley Vaquero, it should be within the pressure limits you are speaking of.

Regardless a 290gr bullet at 1000fps will kill any elk the walks the earth, it might struggle if you are trying to drive it through its heart starting at its rear ham but for any reasonable angle it will do just fine I think. I have carried a 44sp with the classic Keith load for elk and my everyday load is the same Keith bullet at 1050fps and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a elk with that load ether. Elk are tough but not bullet proof, I have shot one through the heart and both lungs and still had it go a half mile before piling up but a bugger gun wouldn't have killed it any faster (180gr Partition from a 300mag), he just needed a couple minutes to die. That's elk, but a good shot will result in a elk in hand.

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I have a confidence problem, of course gun writers over the years have both helped and hurt this. I will have to give your load a try with my new WFNPB bullet at 340 grains. Much as I love my FA, and am so happy I was given the opportunity and financial wherewithal to buy it, it is a beast, and while I may be big around, I am vertically challenged at 5'9". I jumped on the Flattop, thinking it was going to be my perfect packing, shooting, and do-it-all sixgun. Growing up, my Grandad always carried a 6 1/2" OM Ruger in 357 Magnum, and it was always loaded with Magnum loads, he found the one load that worked the best, and never saw any reason to change, a 158gr JSP over a maximum charge of Unique, I did see him kill a 5x5 bull elk with one shot to the neck with that sixgun, and I thought it was the most powerful sixgun ever. Later in life, he also introduced me to the 45 Colt in the form of the then relatively new Vaquero, he fed it 250s over Unique, and it was an instant love affair for me. I have had a 45 Colt since then, never owned anything smaller until years later. I have nothing against the 44, Special or Magnum, in fact my Super Blackhawk with it's 7 1/2" barrel is one of the most accurate sixguns I own when loaded with 250 Keiths, 270gr GDSP, or the Lee 310gr WFNGC. As I am getting older, and my military career is catching up with me more and more, I am less prone to wanting to experiment, I want to find that one load that is fun to shoot, yet will still get the job done if I wait for the right shot, and do my part. My addiction to bullet molds is a whole nother story.

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Will shoot through 3 to 4 feet of meat and bone as easily as a loaf of bread and blow a 1" cork out the back side.

Byron

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It is convincing the brain that appears to be the holdup! I imagine the same would be true even at 950 on the lower end. Had a good casting session for the first time in a long time, cast up enough 340 LBT WFNPB and 290gr 45-270SAA bullets to load a couple of boxes of shells. I really appreciate all of the inputs, with the new grips, I am really loving this sixgun, wish it had come like this.

Dave

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The midframe Flat Top platform from Ruger is a wonderful beast, probably my favorite on the market. Just the right size for most all of the work a handgun can be asked to do. I have a 4 3/4" FA 4757 Linebaugh and it is a wonderful gun as well but it is a bit large for most work.

I had built my #5 44sp on a old model 3 screw Mid Frame Ruger after shooting the heck out of 2 44sp Rugers and loving the handling of each.

The lower gun is the same as yours in 44sp with the Bisley grip, darn near perfection for me, obviously the ivory gripped gun is my #5.

Here is a buck I killed 2 weeks ago with the #5 and a 255gr Keith bullet at 1050fps

The deer dropped at the hit like I had broken his back, the bullet had passed 4" or 5" under his spine but he dropped faster than any deer I have hit with any rifle. Yes this is a mule deer and not a big bull elk, but I have killed upwards of 20 elk and I am confident that that same load will kill a big bull within reasonable ranges just as heavier loads will. I stick with this load because I shoot it so much better than I do heavier loads. I mid ranged load that you can place with precision will beat a thunder boomer that you struggle to hit well with everyday of the week.

Good luck with your load development but that gun is capable of most everything you will ever need a revolver to do in the lower 48 states and probably beyond. Oh and never apolgise for a 45 colt, it is probably the most capable all around handgun cartridge ever created. Still a favorite of mine for sure as evidenced by the 5 or 6 guns in the safe now...

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Art work right there! I wish I liked the Bisley better, I shoot it well, just seems the recoil is worse in the Bisley for me, must be because I am just plain contrary. I know that what I am loading will do everything I could ask of a sixgun. I do seem to remember a coyote at 155 long paces didn't seem to agree with the 255gr SWC that passed lengthwise through his body.

Dave

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Thanks for sharing.

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I've seen 335 grain bullets that were very accurate out of a NM Ruger with a stiff load of 296.

You may not want 296 for cold weather, maybe you could try 2400 or LilGun.

I don't know if your problems were due to the powder you were using, or there is a problem with the diameter of your bullets. There are lots of potential problems with cast.

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And perhaps that is the issue. I will pick the work with the really heavy bullets next spring.

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I would stay below 300 grains in that one.

You could always search out a blue steel blackhawk, they are very lightweight for their size and you can push them pretty far. Make no mistake a 300+ grain bullet with a stiff load of 296 has substantial recoil.

It's expensive but the FA97 in .45Colt can handle everything you throw at it.

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I own a 4 5/8" Blackhawk in 45 Colt. I have been using loads published by Brian Pearce in Handloader trying to get a load suitable for anywhere in North America.

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Including his trips to Alaska...22 Grains 2400 and his 250 grain Keith bullet. He also found the .41 Magnum quite effective on one of those trips and IIRC he was using 210 grain ammo. I'm not against the heavies but I enjoy shooting the 240-250 grain bullets much more these days. My wrists appreciate it and my lead supply lasts longer.

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22.0gr of 2400 was his 44 mag load. 17.5gr in the 44sp and 18.5gr in the 45 colt with his Keith bullet, I can't remember the other loads off the top of my head but he had a Keith bullet/2400 load for each of the major calibers from 38sp on up. They are all powerful and effective and have stood the test of time for sure.

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I've used them all and still use his .357 and .44 Magnum loads. They simply work.

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My obsession with heavy for caliber bullets at modest velocities, not into the barn burners. I will say, I have found a love for the LBT bullets, I always thought the Keith's were the pinnacle for accuracy, but the LBT designs are proving to be even more so. I need to stumble into good 275-290 gr LFN mold for a reasonable price. I now want to find a 450gr mold for the 45/70 for loads no faster than 14-1500fps as well.

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Depending on the bullet. I've had great results with bullets like the LFN type, say 180 in .357 and 305 in .45 Colt. The WFN's are a whole nuther story. I've found they don't stabilize at long range unless driven at wide open throttle but at 30 yards or less they are extremely accurate. I will admit to not trying long to solve this issue. I just went back to the Keith and Thompson bullets because they work at WOT and at gentle cruising speeds, kill game effectively at all velocities from 900 fps up. I don't have nearly the time I use to have to experiment. these days I prettty much shoot .22lr, .357 and .44 Magnum and limit my loads to one or two bullets and a workin' load and a magnum load. Keeps it simple:) If I ever figure out where all my shooting and experimenting time went (now that my kids are all grown and moved out), I will spend that time hunting. The only handgun I really want that I do not have is a NM Flattop .44 Special. I need to remedy that. No need for load development on that one. Only Keith and Skeeter's .44 Special loads need apply:)

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I very rarely shoot beyond 100 yards, but out to there they have been outstanding. In the 454 a 335gr WFNGC keeps them all on a basketball sized rock at 180 yards., same with the 310s in the 44. I have had equally good luck with the 429421 and 45-270SAA bullets at the same range. Now in the 357, the best bullet I cast is a Miha 180gr FNPB, it shoots much better than my 358156, to the point I don't even cast the SWC anymore, saves me on the gaschecks. I will continue to shoot both styles in the 44 and 45.

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Go back to Keiths's writings and up until the .44 Magnum he said if he had to use factory loads he would use a .45 Colt. The original 250 gr RNFP a at 900 or so was a known penetrator. Up the weight and sectional density, improve the bullet shape , and then add a little more velocity and you have a better load all around. A 290 SWC at 1000 or so will penetrate a long way.

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I have over the years done a lot of testing, or better put, experimenting with the penetration of various bullets I cast in 357, 44, 45, and 459. Hands down a 525gr bullet from my 45/70 wins, but I know the 454 really drives a 330+ grain bullet deep, close to 40" in wet newsprint with dry magazines every 6" or so. The 45 Colt is right behind it with the same bullet only slower, the 44 with 310gr bullets is between the 454 and the 45 Colt, just a narrower channel. The 45 Colt with my 290gr SWC made just shy of 30", and surprisingly, the 357 with 180 FN bullets were right there, just a much smaller "wound" channel. I think on opening day, I will be carrying the FA 454 with the 340gr WFN LBT, then I will carry the rifle with the Flattop the other 4 days as a choice of opportunity.

Dave

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