Teach y'all to ask what I've been doing...

by Sarge ⌂ @, Central Misery, Saturday, April 05, 2014, 21:28 (3827 days ago)

I recently traded into a NIB Rossi Model 92 ‘Trapper’ in .357 Magnum. These come with a 16” barrel and weigh under five pounds and measure 33” overall. The photo is of the 92 with a 4” Colt Lawman, for comparison.

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The 16” model was not my first choice. I hunted around for a 20” version, which my dealer's distributor said they had- but could not deliver. The only example I found locally was retail and then some. My preference for the longer barrel was based solely on ballistics and my opinion that the longer rifle might be a little more accurate. 2000 fps was the velocity threshold I hoped to achieve. After some research I settled on a maximum load of 19.0 grains of Winchester 296 using the 140 grain XTP bullet, CCI Magnum Small Pistol primers and the menagerie of cases in my brass pile. So it was time to see how much I’d lost by settling for the 16” barrel. I set up the BetaMaster and checked a few loads from the Rossi and Colt Lawman.

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Results were better than expected.

The aforementioned XTP load generated 2000 fps, +/- 5 fps depending on the brand of case used. The Colt averaged 1240 fps with this load.

Federal’s old 158 grain 357 jacketed softpoint averaged 1729 fps from the 16” Rossi and 1173 fps from the Colt.

Remington’s 125 grain Magnum JHP averaged 2101 fps from the Rossi and 1418 fps from the Colt.

My current cast bullet 38 load uses a Missouri Bullet cast 125 grain RNFP and 5.3 grains of HP38, with a CCI standard small pistol primer. The Rossi 92 averaged 1065 fps with this load and the old Lawman spits them out at 815 fps. They are essentially a 36 caliber version of the 22 LR. Recoil with these loads was barely noticeable end even the hottest loads were a cake-walk in the Model 92.

Does it shoot? The first three shots of the 140 grain XTP load went into ¾ inch at 25 yards.

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I kept shooting on this target while chronographing and there were several 3-shot clover-leaves by the various loads tested. My glasses are trashed and using my ‘good’ left eye I was able to print several 100 meter, three shot groups with the XTP load measuring 2 ½”. Considering uncorrected vision, a huge bead front sight and 20 mph gusts… I’d say the rifle will shoot.

How hard does it shoot? Everybody has fought a contrary stapler at one time or another. I execute the SOB’s.. This one took a 140 grain XTP at about 2000 fps. You are looking through exit hole at the entrance.

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The Trapper is not perfect. It all but refused to feed any Remington semi-jacketed load. Success with the 38 RNFP load is dependent on a light hand on the lever. Thankfully, my XTP hunting load fed perfectly but any 357 load must be cycled with authority. The Trapper’s sights are too coarse for serious accuracy and its trigger pulls is over six pounds. Still, I like it. I will sort out its gremlins, kill some things with it enjoy its versatility. I have coffee cans of reloads to feed it from. This one is going to be fun.

Rossi 92 Sight Redux

The issue sights on 16” Rossi 92’s consist of an odd semi-buckhorn rear and a large brass bead front sight. With the gun’s 12 ½” sight radius, the bead looks like a brass hubcap. At 0.650” high, it’s just waiting to get hooked on something. The rear sight’s ‘horns’ interfere with your peripheral vision of the target. In short, they unnecessarily complicate precise shooting.
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I’ve always liked the flat-top sights on pre-64, ‘94 Winchesters. Coupled with a fine bead, I shoot them better than any other iron sight. So I decided to modify the Rossi’s OEM rear sight with three goals in mind-

1. Simulate the Winchester sight picture
2. Lower the sighting plane substantially
3. Field unobtrusive sights, with no sharp edges.

Armed with a belt sander, files and a Dremel tool, I was a force to be reckoned with! I lowered the rear sight enough that it was necessary to cut a new notch with a cutoff wheel. After little dehorning and baptism in cold blue, it looks like this:
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I had a spare Marbles 450W with the 1/16” white bead, which fits Rossi’s oddball dovetail and is infinitely sturdier (and .200 shorter) than the factory offering.
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The end result (alignment notwithstanding) looks something like this.
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These sights were essentially ‘on’ where I centered them and using the 140 XTP 357 load, anything you put the bead on at 100 meters grows a 35 caliber hole through it. Low-effort, rested 3 shot groups hovered at two inches, a half inch better than I was doing with the OEM sights. Shooting unsupported at 25 paces, two of my 125 grain RNFP 38 loads made that many holes in an empty 12 gauge hull. This is a substantial improvement and I didn't have to Send Money to anybody.

And finally today, I pulled it down and narrowed the trigger return spring by about 40%. Resulting trigger finished at 2 3/4 pounds and that won't hurt the way it shoots at all.

Looks like you have a winner.

by Jared, Saturday, April 05, 2014, 21:36 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

.

Thank you for the article

by stonewalrus, Saturday, April 05, 2014, 21:54 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

I have the 20" Rossi. It is a joy to shoot but I haven't done a lot of testing.

Levering

by JLF @, Saturday, April 05, 2014, 22:07 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

All the old timers that lived everyday with them have told me that a lever gun needs to be run "smartly" to be utterly dependable. No doubt everyone has their own idea of what that means, but I took it to be brisk and deliberate, but not as a gorilla would see that. Or... the same way to properly use a pump shotgun. What I know it's NOT is to pussy-foot it open and closed, and watch all the little parts move around in the process. I've had a lot of "rounds that won't feed" suddenly do just fine when they don't have time to act up.:-D

JLF

LOL...

by Sarge ⌂ @, Central Misery, Saturday, April 05, 2014, 22:31 (3827 days ago) @ JLF

94 Winchesters and 870's, Jack. As I tell my new recruits, who try to soft-pedal an 870- "RACK it! If it could be broke, somebody would have broke it long before you got ahold of it."

This 92 runs 38's a little better with a soft touch and it runs them a lot better now, with the ejector deburred. Considering that all the Winchester lever actions were designed to run ONE length of cartridge, I'm surprised they run 38's as well as they do.

Jim Taylor's Puma will feed full wadcutters slow, everything

by Rob Leahy ⌂ @, Prescott, Arizona, Saturday, April 05, 2014, 22:37 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

else does better with a fast movement. I think these .357 lever guns are just great.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

Mine feeds jacketed and cast bullets just fine

by stonewalrus, Saturday, April 05, 2014, 22:52 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

In 357 or 38 - Have not tried full wadcutters.

LOL...

by JLF @, Sunday, April 06, 2014, 01:19 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

Back in the days before Rossi, fellers would slap a Numrich barrel into a Winchester 92 in 44-40, and call it a .44mag. I must have owned a dozen over the years. Some builders tinkered the action to match, and I think some just changed the barrel, and called it a day. Consequently, some ran like fine watches with mag and special both, others wouldn't feed special at all, and some wouldn't feed anything. I always considered it a black art, and never took it up.

JLF

Numrich 44 mag...I found one at Whittington Center last year

by Rob Leahy ⌂ @, Prescott, Arizona, Sunday, April 06, 2014, 12:33 (3827 days ago) @ JLF

I needs a new mag tube spring but is otherwise reliable and fun to use. Dated to 1896 it is one cool carbine...:-D

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

Three Five Seven carbine velocity.....

by Byron, Sunday, April 06, 2014, 10:22 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

I have long been a fan of three five seven carbines and find them to be among the most useful firearms to have around the farm (as well as AR15s and 9mm carbines).

Unfortunately, an unnamed member of the board seems to talk me out of all my .357 Marlins for his sons....

A common misconception on these handy carbines is that longer barrels deliver higher velocities. Not so. Please note the measured velocity of various .357 ammo in different barrel lengths. Link below.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

One quickly will see that in all but one type of ammo that the highest measured velocity is in the 16" tube.

In that the whole idea is a handy and useful general purpose carbine...16" is a winner.

Sight radius becomes an issue in short barrels especially with those with older eyes....a low profile peep sight is then the answer. Also, while discharged by some as non-traditional, a fiber optic front sight (green works best for me) will improve the ability to hit under almost all situations.

Note on the newer Rossi 92s that have the safety on the bolt there is a peep sight that will fit right into the hole giving the ultimate is precise low profile sighting.

Also, please note while on the "ballisticsbytheinch.com" site the comparisons between the .22 LR and .22 WRM. Note at the 2" mark there is no difference between the two.

Byron

Guilty as charged!!

by Slow Hand ⌂ @, Indiana, Sunday, April 06, 2014, 12:44 (3827 days ago) @ Byron

They are both very appreciated! The younger still has a few years until begets to try his out, but Lucas my little red head shot his last summer and had a great time!

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First shot was center mass!

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That is great!

by Sarge ⌂ @, Central Misery, Sunday, April 06, 2014, 13:22 (3827 days ago) @ Slow Hand

I'll have about four lined up to take a turn at this one.

just a fwiw (ymmv!)

by bob, Sunday, April 06, 2014, 11:43 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

over 12 years ago, perhaps a bit more, I ran a test of several calibers firing factory ammo from handguns and rifles, think it was published on the old Sixgunner board. Final test was 357mag from my 6" resolver and my 20" Rossi carbine, avg FPS for the 6" was 1255 and for the Rossi 1664. That was for the old Remington 165gr CoreLoktHP. I can tell you that the Rossi put a hard cast 180gr slug thru the ears of a +/- 700lb feral boar with no problem, dropping him in his tracks. Still have the skull if anyone wants to examine the bullet holes!
Would love to have a 16" version of my Rossi, much better truck gun and still plenty of whomp.
bob

Great write up. I've got a Winchester Trapper 357

by BobM, Ohio, Sunday, April 06, 2014, 19:16 (3827 days ago) @ Sarge

that needs to get out more.

Nice report Sarge.

by Hoot @, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Monday, April 07, 2014, 13:11 (3826 days ago) @ Sarge

I need to scratch the .357 lever itch one of these days...you guys are having just too much fun with yours.

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