Last Saturday morning, I went to my barber to get my hair cut (that was not the stupid part – I really needed my hair cut). While I was in the chair a 20’s-something guy came in and sat down. He was mostly white, but with a little ethnic of some kind mixed in. When I was done, I went over to pick up my coat and the guy walked past me towards the barber. While I was putting my coat on (with my back to him), I heard, “Gimme all your money”.

I turned around and saw that he had a handgun. The moment I turned around, he left the barber and came back over to me and said, “Gimme all your money”. The gun was a fairly new, totally black, generic 9mm or 40cal, high-cap, blocky-looking, semi-automatic in excellent condition. It was NOT a Glock. I am a revolver guy, not a semi-auto expert, but it looked like a Springfield XD or maybe one of the new S&W M&P’s. There was no sign of a red or orange cap on the barrel or the remains of one. The hammer was down, but that means nothing with everything being DA anymore. It was pointing towards me, but below the waist, instead of being pointed at my heart.

My carry gun (Kel-Tec P32) was in my front left pocket, in a leather pocket holster, without a round in the chamber. I have practiced drawing it, wiping the holster off as it comes out of the pocket, chambering a round with my other hand, and shooting – at the range. There was absolutely no possibility that I was going to get that done with a DA gun pointing at me.

I heard myself say, “No.” The very next thought I had was; That was really, really stupid. But, I did not contradict myself, at least out-loud. We stared at each other for probably 15 or 20 seconds. The gun barrel moved around on my body, but did not rise to my heart. Then he backed away and said something that I did not hear (I wasn’t wearing my hearing aids), then went out the door and ran away. I told the barber to call the police. There were two armed robberies later that day on the same street, one about a half mile west and the other about a mile west of the barber shop. NONE of the news media said anything about what the robber looked like so I don't know if it was the same guy.

I guess I won the lottery. What I did was totally stupid. I won’t be doing that again. I only had about $80 in my wallet. I have been thinking about what other options I have for concealed carry and cannot think of any way out-draw a DA gun that is already pointing at me. I have also been trying to understand why he did not shoot me. It could be that it was not a real gun (but I doubt it). It could be that he could not get any ammunition for it (but I doubt it). It could be that he was not ready to make the jump from armed robber to murderer at this time. I have no way of knowing. I got lucky. Very lucky.

He wasn't ready to shoot you and he wasn't prepared for resistance of any kind. Most of these people are used to err'body seeing a gun and just handing it over. Yes, you were lucky. Hats off to you for having a set.

I'll send you a holster that will stay in your pocket when you draw, on the house. You might want to consider a chambered round or a go to a a S&W J.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

Glad it worked out as well as it did for you. I cannot imagine carrying an auto loader with an empty chamber for just that reason. Those long, heavy double actions are as safe as you can get for pocket carry.

And I don't see any way you could out draw a gun already pointed at you. Only hope would be a distraction or engaging him in hand to hand combat and even then you're taking a big chance of getting shot.

I can't claim to know how I'd react in the same situation but I'd say you handled yourself very well!

as daily companions, since a rough patch a few years back. Lots of dry firing with good snap caps and slicky-lube -- you'll be snapping them off from a draw to center of mass in no time at all. Play around with different grips and Tyler' T's until you get one that nestles in every time you grab it. Buffalo Bore loads for LW J's, too.

Also, if you can get an alloy frame, do so. They are quite durable, and noticeably lighter. I also use a Barami Hip-grip for the door-answer-er. Handy to tuck,and almost invisible under a blouse'd shirt.

And, yes, I do have a few 'real' guns for formal wear, and know that I should be carrying the full boat all the time. Mostly depends on my destination, tho. NOT approved, I know, but...the gun you have with you and can instantly use with full confidence of hits, is better than a bigger piece left at home.

The bestest 'J' -- that hammerless little cannon in .357. Not because I NEED the round, but because everyone I've been allowed to shoot, has been extraordinarily accurate WITH the full-power rounds, It's on my very short list. "OH..it really recoils THAT bas? Tell ya what, I've got a nice...blah-blah guntrade." ;~`)

Happy for your escape from harm...been in same situation. Once, with me unarmed and three masked gunnies. After that, knew I was being assessed for further crime in the little ol' ghetto lock/hardware store. No more robberies tho -- being armed and confident says a lot in body language, to dudes who read that script very well.

Now? I'm werry werry caweful..werry.

Did once do a successful staredown...kid ran out of store and I sat back down in chair behind counter and broke into a cold sweat!!! Risky biz,and MOST happy to read of working out for you.

...say you were able to get your gun into your hand, then what would you have done? I am not trying to be a smart alec, I am curious how you see it going from there?

Now you have a chance to rethink your carry options and everything you've learned about situational awareness. Whether you're completely happy with it or not, your response worked with this guy. You didn't comply and put yourself at the mercy of this person who might have shot you and the barber anyway.

It's also too bad your barber wasn't of similar mindset and mentally prepared and possessed of the means to shoot a criminal who was threatening the life of one of his customers.

Glad your ok. Sorry you learned the hard way that your carry is lacking in most ways. Carry should be more comforting than comfortable. I carried a 380 government model till I was in a situation where I could not draw because I was out numbered for a small caliber. Bad guys don't carry mouse guns anymore and we should stop carrying them as well. After my situation I took to a 1911 carry and never had a problem carrying it, Wow Cooper was right!

The Kel-Tec was carried with an empty chamber because of its peculiar characteristics. When the slide is jacked, the hammer is moved to the half-cock position. The hammer is shrouded. It is impossible to move the hammer to full cock or to let it down. I did not feel comfortable carrying it half cocked all the time.

I took my concealed carry class with a S&W 632 Super-Kitgun. It is a J-frame with a 4" barrel, adjustable sights, and in .32 Magnum. I have a Rob Leahy pancake holster for it, but that is not concealed when I take the coat off. That is why I have never really carried it concealed. It worked great for passing the course, though.

The thing about the Kel-Tec is that it has never (to my knowledge) been spotted on me and I have carried into a lot of places that have "gun-free-zone" decals on the door.

I was asked here what I would have done if I had my gun in my hand when he turned 90 degrees and started walking towards me. I think I would have started shooting until the gun was empty. I can hit what I aim at with any gun I own. If not, I get rid of it.

I shoot a lot of CAS with my 41 Long Colts and Uberti 38-40 lever-action. I would not have tried drawing on him with even that rig when he had his gun pointing at me.

That's what many folks just don't get. In many if not most cases the perpetrator is going to know what he is going to do long before you know what is happening. They will have the drop on you. I carry a keltec also in .380. I do have a round chambered at all times. You are lucky you didn't get gut shot. I do appreciate the cojones.

I have thought about one of those belt clips for the .380 instead of the pocket deal I currently use.

1. I can't remember the last time I had more than a few bucks in my pocket, if that's your "walk'in around" money, your doing OK.

2. Your freaking BATMAN!!

Glad nothng happened to you.

Joe

.

--
Sincerely,

Hobie

...and has been robbed twice and once (the almost third time) he did just what you did mostly because he didn't believe the guy. Apparently they exchanged some salty language and the guy left to try to rob some other place and got stuck in the drive through window at a Burger King about 1/2 mile south of the son's place of work. I take it that this sort of thing happens more often than anyone knows. Any resistance results in a rapid exit by the criminal. It might be early in their career, but this seems to happen often enough that I think you'll probably have it happen again before you win the lottery.

--
Sincerely,

Hobie

WOW! glad everything came out ok . this type of thing is happing way to often. And I think it`s going to get worst. I sure would hate to shoot some one , but I would if they pointed a gun at me. I would go down fighting

!

but the holster was the least of my problems. Everything I had and everything I did was part of the problem. I need to completely rethink this concealed carry thing. This is the first time in about 25 years that I had an occasion to use a carry gun. Both other ones I have owned at different times were also mouse guns. Neither one of them would have helped me in this case either.

BTW, I have two of your holsters. Both are great, but neither are really for concealed carry.

You reach in to your coat pocket for your wallet and DA him right there where he stands. Coats are cheap.

We are having many more home invasions in my neck of the woods. They come in hot with semi rifles and handguns and they don't care who they hurt, including 10 year old girls. Taking home security a lot more seriously , Not paranoid but Having a gun in every room is sounding like a good plan to me. Also taking my wife out to give her a refresher with hand gun and shot gun. It is a different world now. J.Michael

guns too. Fences gates dogs motion activated lights camera system alarms metal security doors etc. A Layered defense. We are in the process of transplanting al of our prickly pear cactus to the outside of our fence line...

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

You should make a hedgerow of cholla! :)

desert plant.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

Thanks. I had no clue where either grows or even how high you were. I've just read so many stories about how nasty cholla is. :)

Glad you came out okay Harry.

I've read all the replies to this post and there is a lot of wise advice here. I don't believe there is any such thing as the perfect way to carry concealed that fits everyone. Nor, the perfect gun for everyone for that matter. There are too many factors involved that influence what works best for any one person.

Murphy

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

Luckily is not a problem here, Yet!

I've been cogitating on this since you posted. It brought to mind a late night walk down one of our main avenues years ago. At that time of night there's no one around, usually, and we'd walk the dog last thing before turning in after an evening calling/teaching/etc. It was somewhere around midnight and up the avenue a ways I saw a guy that "didn't fit". I told my wife to cross behind me to where I'd be between her and the guy and I passed my cane (always carried when walking the dog, for use in dealing with other canines mostly) to my left hand. The guy walked up to a few feet from us - with my eyes on his face the whole way, and asked "Would you give me a coin?" to which I answered "No sir, I give money to no one. Have a good night." He passed on by and I turned slightly to keep him in view for a ways. My wife said, "Did you see that knife?" to which I replied, "Yes." - but I'd not seen it enough to ID it other than a long object in his hand. Her crossing behind me signaled that we were aware of our surroundings. Shifting the cane indicated readiness, albeit he had no way of knowing readiness for what. Watching his face/eyes signaled lack of fear. All together he got the message - there's bound to be more willing victims down the road.

Polite refusal to bow before such demands is something most crooks aren't sure how to react to. They are conditioned to think that everyone is a victim ready to roll over, and when they don't then the perp isn't sure what to do - unless they've crossed the bridge where they are willing to take a life for no reason. Looks like your guy fits that category.

When the guys got us the PPPPPP I had to make some conscious decisions as to manner of dress. Rob's pancake makes for a handy concealed carry piece - but it has to go under an untucked shirt or coat/vest/jacket. So my mode of dress/wardrobe has had a complete makeover. Sometimes I'll use appendix carry or IWB, but both of those dictate a cover garment also. For me it's worth the effort.

Better yet my M &P compact 9. I used to have a Keltec and pack my LCP some but ifI really have to use it it's not much gun! Ask yourself, what is the minimum caliber you would want to stop an agressive dog attack with? You may be confronting somebody just as vicious on two legs...

Competitive & Tactical shooter/martial arts nephew researches the heck out of self-defense issues and technology -- then goes and uses them with good trainers. Apparently the Shield is highly regarded in his circle, for concealment and practical payload.

I dunno, myself. Maybe someone here can kick-in. At 450$, roughly, it should be 'budgetable', for most folks.

Yes, my compact is a little fat for pocket carry although I do with oversized pockets. I would think the Shield orLC9 would be about ideal. I would probably have a Shield but it hadn't come out yet and I got an awesome deal on my used compact.

Many many Gunsite folk carry them for summer un der shirt use in IWB or tuckable mode.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

It has a great trigger.

I've not tried the shield or XDs but they seem a little large for jean pocket carry. I've carried my 442 for so long it's hard to go with anything different. I had a Kel Tec P-11 and PF9 and while both were about the same length and height as a J frame, both seemed to show much more than the little Smith. I think it's due to the flatness of them. Flat makes for great IWB carry but it seems to make them stand out more in a pocket.
I'm probably being too self conscious in these days where so many carry huge cell phones and other junk in pockets, but I was always aware of the shape in my pocket. I don't wear tight jeans but I have pretty beefy legs so especially when I sit down, they get a little snug on my thighs.

As to wearing a mini-9 on the belt, that just seems silly to me. With a good holster it's just as easy to carry and conceal a compact version of a fu size gun. That gives you early double the capacity, better sights and sight radius and a better grip with only a little more weight and girth. Not worth the trade off to me!

then I already have packin' belt pistols. In winter, in an outside coat pocket, you can about carry a cannon, as most of you have, It's that summer and/or inside building carry that I where want to add the rounds. Maybe another vintage 642, ;~`) Can't have too many hammerless S&W: shoulder holster, ankle carry, pockets, IWB's --

Why are you carrying a Kel-Tek with an empty chamber?

With the proper pocket holster there is no danger of that gun going off in your pocket. Just make sure that the trigger is covered. The properly holtered gun should be in the same side pocket as your primary shooting hand. Pulling that gun with a chambered round & pulling your wallet or the same thing. With a bit of practice the gun will clear your pocket faster than the wallet.

You are a fortunate man in this event.

~JM~

J frame.

--
Of the Troops & For the Troops

never runs out of bullets... Just kidding - don't bring a knife to a gunfight but having one along ain't a bad idea either.

if you just slightly brush against it, the very thin spines will embed themselves in you and are the dickens to remove. I know some cowboys that swear the spines will jump up to three feet from the plant to attack you. Cholla is hell on horses.

that when asked why he carried a gun all the time, replied: "I don't need it very often, but when I do, I need it pretty damn bad."

I carry a Glock 19 on the belt in a good fitting slide type holster. I wear a large open overshirt and the Glock conceals very well.

Even so, I would have let the guy have my $80.00, but if it looked like something more than a simple stick up and I could see he was distracted for just a second, I think I could have come out on top.

If ever we need the gun we carry, we need to stack the odds in our favor as best we can. I also carry a Ruger LPC in my weak side pants pocket if case somebody grabs my gun hand, I can have a surprise for him with the other hand.

If ever I need my carry weapon, I need it right damn now and not after a series of moves to present it and get a round in the chamber. Draw..aim/point..fire! is all I am interested in.