AR vs AK47 comparison
One would have to ask....
What was the 5.56mm loaded with? Almost surely M193 ball which is purposely designed to fragment rapidly. The test would have turned out different if the 5.56mm was loaded with M855 which will out penetrate even 7.62x51mm NATO ball let alone the 7.62x39mm.
US M855 5.56mm vs US M80 7.62mm armor penetration:
Q. Isn't 7.62 NATO much better for long range penetration than 5.56 anyhow? Why would I want to use 5.56 when I could send 7.62 downrange instead?
Well, yes and no. For some penetration mediums like mild steel, M855 is actually superior. Consider a recent research report:
They certainly behave in a similar way when they encounter tissue at the right velocities, but they aren't exactly the same.
The SS-109 can penetrate the 3.45mm standard NATO steel plate to 640 meters, while the 7.62mm ball can only penetrate it to 620 meters. The U. S. steel helmet penetration results are even more impressive as the SS-109 can penetrate it up to 1,300 meters, while the 7.62mm ball cannot penetrate it beyond 800 meters.
The current production 7.62×51mm NATO ball cartridge has remained unchanged since its adoption by NATO in 1953. As typified by the U. S. M80 ball and the Belgian M77 ball, this cartridge propels a 147-grain cupronickel-jacketed lead bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps (848 mps). Total cartridge length and weight are 2.80 inches and 386 grains, respectively. Utilizing a standard 22-inch barrel with a rifling twist of one turn in twelve inches (M14 rifle), the maximum effective range of the 7.62×51mm ball cartridge is listed as 620 meters (682 yards). The U. S. M80 and the Belgian M77 ball projectiles can penetrate the standard NATO 3.45 mm (.14 inch) thick steel plate up to a range of 620 meters and can penetrate one side of the U. S. steel helmet up to a range of 800 meters (880 yards). In barrier and fortification penetration tests, the 147 grain ball projectile can consistently penetrate two test building blocks.
The new SS-109 cartridge propels a heavier 62-grain semi-armor piercing projectile at an initial velocity of 3,050 fps (924 mps). The improved projectile contains a 10-grain .182 caliber hardened steel penetrator that ensures penetration at longer ranges.
The new projectile can penetrate the standard NATO 3.45mm steel plate up to a range of 640 meters (704 yards) and one side of the U. S. steel helmet up to a range of 1,300 meters (1430 yards). In tests of barrier and fortification penetration however, the steel penetrator of the SS-109 could not pierce any of the test building blocks.
One would have to ask....
by Sarge 
, Central Misery, Saturday, November 09, 2013, 16:03 (3975 days ago) @ Byron
Prior to our receipt of the Sigs, we furnished our own rifles. Chief's trunk monkey is an Armalite 20" HBAR (damn nice rifle) and mine is a WASR 10/63, 7.62x39 with a with a 16" barrel. After our 100 yard stage we each had 3 rounds left. Just for grins we turned them on our dinger which is made from an old piece of municipal well casing, 100 yards distant. Looks to be at least 1/2 thick.
Three rounds quick from standing. Our shots nearly matched, two hits close to the center and one to the outside. The HBAR made pretty little pockmarks on all hits and the AK knocked three clean 30 cal holes through the near side. He was shooting 55 grain milspec ball and I was shooting 123 grain Tula FMJ. Neither of us would have believed it until we saw it.
That's what M193 (55gr) will do at that distance
by Miles Fortis , CIVITATES AMERICAE, Saturday, November 09, 2013, 16:09 (3975 days ago) @ Sarge
and inside peoples. Fly apart in pieces, very nasty.
That's what M193 (55gr) will do at that distance
by rob , Friday, November 15, 2013, 23:58 (3969 days ago) @ Miles Fortis
That's what I keep loaded in my Ar for social situations and Barnes Vortex 55's for everything else.
now obsolete! M855A1 is standard.
by Miles Fortis , CIVITATES AMERICAE, Saturday, November 09, 2013, 16:15 (3975 days ago) @ Byron
But the old green tip will be around for quite awhile just like M193 is.
The new stuff has had fantastic reviews from A-stan. One of the developers at Picatinny used it at the National Matches and scored very well.
Some of the guys are working on going to the National Matches next summer (and I'm working on the idea they need their own personal armorer) and they'll use it as well.
Any upgrade from Green Tip is a blessing
And a long overdue one at that.
What is wrong with green tip?
Serious question. I shoot a lot of it and it shoots well for me, but I'm shooting at paper and steel, not at people shooting back.
M855 was a compromise from the start
by Miles Fortis , CIVITATES AMERICAE, Sunday, November 10, 2013, 11:29 (3975 days ago) @ cubrock
It's pretty decent general purpose ammo, but there is much better available. That being said, don't go throwing it away.
When developed, it's primary design feature was the ability to get through then current soviet body armor, even if what got though was nothing more than a ~20 gr piece of tungsten.
A wound, any body entry wound was preferable to merely peppering someone with fragments as a standard lead core bullet disintegrated on hard armor.
The design was state of the art 37 years ago, but technology has advanced.
It's not a bad bullet, but had known terminal ballistic limitations on 'soft' targets almost from the start. Fragmentation is dependent on the yaw of the bullet as it enters the target. And yaw is subject to variables that could never be accurately predicted. So, terminal performance is unpredictable.
It can as easily zip right through a target causing a need for multiple rounds into hajji or tumble and fragment into itty-bitty pieces and he's down for the count.
M855A1 replaced M855 three years ago. It is a completely different bullet design and took almost 10 years to get right.
The lead slug is replaced by a copper slug placed behind the penetrator and the jacket is reverse-drawn instead of forward-drawn around the slug and penetrator. The jacket is swaged into the penetrator which extends beyond the jacket and becomes the point of the bullet.
Hard target penetration is increased. Ballistic gel tests (soft target) show vastly improved performance which was confirmed by combat use in Afghanistan. All ballistic performance, interior, exterior and terminal have been shown to be highly predicable by this combat use and we'll probably not see another change for standard issue until someone finally comes out with that phased plasma rifle.
Exactly. We've known since Mogadishu that 855...
left a lot to be desired against targets not wearing Warsaw Pact steel helmets or body armor. "Like shooting them with an icepick". Crying shame it's taken this long to field something better.
designing the new bullet took thinking "outside the box"
by Miles Fortis , CIVITATES AMERICAE, Monday, November 11, 2013, 15:20 (3973 days ago) @ mcassill
and oh how hard it is for anyone in "Big Army" to ever even consider that kind of thinking.
I do it all day everyday, and it drives our next higher headquarters inspectors absolutely bugnutz. with another word in front of bugnutz.
From what I've read, it took a 5 man design team at Picatinny over two years to decide to completely change how a service bullet that would meet Hague Accords (even though we've never signed on to it) could be made.
My pick would be the AK all day long.....
.223 is a VARMINT round, not a man stopper. I would hesitate to even hunt deer with that caliber.
You're probably right....
Good for ground hogs and such.
You're probably right....
It's a wonder we have ever prevailed in battle with those silly little rounds just annoying enemy combatants 
I enjoyed the parody video.
by Rob Leahy , Prescott, Arizona, Sunday, November 10, 2013, 14:32 (3974 days ago) @ mcassill
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Of the Troops & For the Troops