It was a neat little rifle. This one was in unfortunate condition, but the craftsmanship was apparent.

I had toyed with a few 1909s, but this 1891 was a revelation.

I recall a bunch of them came onto the surplus market about five years ago, but it was about the same time I picked up my Steyr SBS and wasn't paying attention to surplus rifles.

The FR7 and FR8 hold appeal, too, but aren't as practical as they once were, with milsurp ammo costs what they are.

So, any hints or comments on the 91 carbines? Enable me.

It is .308-sized but, as Hobie notes below, not in performance. Not as wide a selection of bullets but you can usually find things from 150 to 180 grains.

The action is not as stout as the '98 nor are there as many aftermarket bits but there really is no need to push them hard.

I have a sporter rifle that I picked up on the cheap. It shoots better than it ought to. It was made in Berlin and has everything a hopeless gun crank would ever want...smooth action, fitted parts, panache...

My understanding is the carbines carry a bit of a premium over the rifles. It seems like anything full military and correct is spendy these days but I really don't know what they are worth.

FWIW

[edited the bit about the .308 to (hopefully) remove any confusion regarding power]

on condition but most seem to be fair to good, a few excellent, none mint. Some of the cavalry carbines were converted to engineer carbines of which I have one. Supposedly sighted for the original 215 gr. bullet load, mine shoots pretty close to POA with either issue 150 gr. or what you might reasonably cook up. In the '91 it is more a .300 Savage than a .308 Winchester or 7.62mm NATO but the case is modern and all the brass I've dealt with is pretty good. One can reform any .30-06 case head to it with issues, sometimes, due to neck thickness. Chamber dimensions can vary quite a bit but if you load for the one chamber you don't have many problems if any. I had a sporterized rifle which I had somewhat debubbaed but it was a 2½ MOA gun at best (Williams FP). I feel that my current carbine is more accurate and it has a tighter chamber than my old converted rifle. Powders suitable for the .300 Savage are likewise suitable for the 7.65 Argentine. One is limited to .312" bullets. I've yet to see a bore that works with .308 bullets. Personally, I love the 1891 action, the 1896 a bit and the 1898 not at all. I like the SMLE action (even #4s) as well and there are similarities in behavior such as cock on closing.

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2006/11/1891-argentine-engineer-carbine.html

Oh, back to prices. I would expect $350-500 from mine (weird market right now) but they were going close to $500 before 2008 pretty regularly.

--
Sincerely,

Hobie

My shooting and reloading life started out with an old worn out 98 Argentine and then I graduated to a better condition 91 Argentine Sporter (homemade). I quickly traded the very frosty 98 off and kept the 91............This was back in 1979 yes I remember well paying about $60 for the 91. Lord forgive me for sporterizing it please.

I'll have to post pictures. Standard poor boy sporter. I did later install 700 BDL sights and a Weaver one piece base. I did not mess with the bolt handle or safety opting to use a Weaver see through mount the lets the bolt and safety clear the old Tasco 3x9x32(poor boy scope).

I started out with a LEE loader and 150 grain Hornady Spire points and a can of H4895. Learned early on to be careful with the hammer and primers LOL. Seems the last time I shot it I shot it at 200 yards and got a three shot 4 inch group. Seems like I used 42 grains of the H 4895. The rifle is against the wall in my garage. I am currently working on installing swivels. I need to take a deer with it as I hunted in the early eighties with it some until I finally got me a Winchester 94.

I once bought 500 rounds of loose 7.65 military ammo with a hundred different headstamp dates on it for $25 from Century back in 1981. A lot of click bangs or just clicks. Most had cupro-nickel bullets. Some had what looked like a 174 grain boattail. Some headstamps were dated 1924 and FN.

I once read that the 91 Mauser was the pinnacle of fit and finish in a military rifle next to the 71/84 Mauser. The bluing on parts of this rifle would rival a Python in places.

Bob

I did not mean to imply '.308 performance' and edited my post.

The 1891 Argentine Mauser is a great German rifle. Mine is an early one made by Lowe. It has had the barrel shortened to 24" and the stock accordingly. Whoever did it, knew what they were doing. The muzzle was turned down and the original front sight was installed. Looks almost seamless.

Back in the late 70s, many of these came into the country and sold for a song. Many of these rifles were unissued and like new. They are still around, but have increased in price. Folks recognize a great, well made and accurate rifle when they see it.

These rifles are "fat 30" caliber, like the Brit, Jap and long rimmed Russian rounds. My Lowe runs .312 in the grooves. While jacketed bullets are not plentiful, there are many fine cast bullet designs that do well in this rifle. These rifles tend to have a longer tapered throat, so bullets that run .312 to .314 on the body most often do well. The land diameter of mine is .302. So, I use .314 X .302 cast bullets with good results.

The round is known as the 7.54 Mauser, 7.65 Belgian and 7.65 Argentine. As Hobie said, cases can be made from any 30-06 based case. I use an old Lyman Shell Resizer and it is to short to use 06 cases full length, so I use 8mm cases also made in a Lyman Shell Resizer.

For fun, here is a pic of the original LC 62 NM case, a 8mm made from another, and a 7.65mm made from an 8mm. On the far right is an original Norma 7.65 case. All cases are stright, but one was sitting on a little trash on the desk which makes it look crooked.