The Frontier Sixshooter Community Message Board - It applies even when the 'contestants' don't know....

It applies even when the 'contestants' don't know.... (reply)

Hoot — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 02:19:58 +0000

there is a contest.

Witness your 'defensive driving' reference above.

It would seem that part of the first 'O' is to recognize you are in a contest...

Very true! (reply)

rob — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 01:20:50 +0000

No message, no message, there really ain't no message. There is literally no subject matter here, just a bunch of key board babble:)

OODA applies to every contested event... (reply)

Sarge — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 01:11:27 +0000

You are either driving the contest or it is driving you.

It's something the Republic party needs to master... (reply)

rob — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 03:14:44 +0000

The democraps (communist party of USA ) keeps throwing a series of offensive strikes at them. They observe not, they are somewhere in la la land, can't decide what to do or how to act when what they should be doing is developing a pro-America platform, putting it before the people of this country and hourly throwing the anti-American policies of the democraps in front of the voting populous putting the Dems on the defense and doing it so fast, so hard and so continuously it makes their head spin:)

thanks, will check there (reply)

cable — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 18:36:50 +0000

Hobbytron.com has pretty good prices (reply)

stonewalrus — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 18:25:43 +0000

There are some licensed copies out there for Smith, Ruger and Colt. You probably want CO2. I have the ones where you have to rack the slide each time - slow process for force on force. The electrics from what I have seen don't have enough oomph to much more than get them out the barrel. Look for something doing around 300 fps. The 150 fps ones have no range at all.

Byron, any recommendations on air soft, specifically (reply)

cable — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:27:37 +0000

where to buy them, what prices and models and brands ??

i have never tried this, but it sounds like a sensible way to train.

any info appreciated.

Very informative.....thanks for sharing this info (reply)

John Meeker — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 16:07:45 +0000

Thank You Gents (reply)

Gary G — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 20:47:31 +0000

Sarge...was Is OODA ? (reply)

Sarge — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 04:04:38 +0000

"A famous German Fighter Ace was asked, what is your secret?
Answer: I have an acute awareness for the back of my neck.

He was also asked what he thought about the P-51 Mustang. He response: Three of the
four that I shot down today did not even know I was in the same sky with them.

Notice he did not talk about hardware here. He drilled down to the inner man."

http://www.strategosintl.com/pdfs/OODA.pdf

In some ways it is like chess - the good players are (reply)

stonewalrus — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 03:17:08 +0000

Thinking several moves ahead.

Observe orient decide act (reply)

stonewalrus — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 03:02:46 +0000

Sort of think on the run, constantly re-assessing the situation. Here is what Wikipedia says:

The phrase OODA loop refers to the decision cycle of observe, orient, decide, and act, developed by military strategist and USAF Colonel John Boyd. Boyd applied the concept to the combat operations process, often at the strategic level in military operations. It is now also often applied to understand commercial operations and learning processes.

Sarge...was Is OODA ? (reply)

Slow Hand — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 03:01:13 +0000

Observe
Orient
Decide
Act

It was originLly developed for fighter pilots. Works well in self defense, defensive driving, and really just every day life. Once you learn about it, it's amazing how often you realize you are 'in the loop'!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

Also, being a loop, it's unending. In a combat situation you and your enemy are constantly trying to shortcut each other's loops mocking them start over.

Sarge...what Is OODA ? (reply)

Gary G — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 02:44:48 +0000

Thanks.

Byron, once agian, great information! I like the Roman quote (reply)

Rob Leahy — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 23:45:50 +0000

too...

Train like you fight. Fight like you train (reply)

Miles Fortis — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 18:49:44 +0000

Even the Roman Legions did it.

"nor would he be mistaken that should call those their exercises bloodless battles, and their battles, bloody exercises." Flavius Josephus

Training at gun fighting instead of shooting..... (reply)

Otony — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 14:25:55 +0000

Excellent post, sir. Thank you!

Otony

Training at gun fighting instead of shooting..... (reply)

Cherokee — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 13:53:26 +0000

Thanks, good suggestion

Training at gun fighting instead of shooting..... (reply)

Byron — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 13:28:02 +0000

Force on force training is remarkable in how quickly it shows ones weaknesses and strengths. It is the only way to even begin to grasp what really is happening when two or more start shooting at each other. It is also easy and convenient.

If one carries a sidearm for "personal protection" they should also have a high quality airsoft pistol that resembles their carry gun. This goes for the M4 as well.

Go into your backward with a friend also similarly armed, put on some goggles and start shooting at each other. Do it at night with a flashlight and see how it goes. The learning curve is not steep, it's vertical. You will get shot a lot in the beginning. Then slowing things will start to come together and you will begin to understand what is happening.

We do this regularly and see that 3 Gun and IPSC masters have utterly no chance against teenage boys who play airsoft in the backyard most weekends. NO CHANCE!

First and foremost. To "stand and deliver" will get you shot almost every time, regardless of whether you are fast enough on the first shot to hit your man. Once more, almost every single time you will be shot if you stand still and shoot back.

If one considers the best possible outcome in a gun fight is to not get shot, then a clear pattern of action becomes obvious very quickly. Move and move fast!

At the bell, jerk your sidearm and jump sideways as fast as possible while shooting at your man. In that almost all shootings take place within 10 feet this should be one handed point shooting. Continue moving quickly (quickly!) sideways while rapidly (rapidly!) shooting until you are out of ammunition or your man is done. More often than not you will not be shot doing this and probably will have got your guy.

You won.

Things become clear during these exercises. You focus on the gun and you will be shot in the hands a lot. Being hit right on the edge of the little finger nail with a airsoft pellet at conversational distance will really hurt. Train at night and you will find the a weapon mounted light is a bullet magnet that will get you shot. Hold the flash light way out to the side and way from your body. Never get behind the light and use it sparingly.

Read Col David Grossman's books, "On Combat" and "On Killing". They will open your eyes. It is hard for one untrained in "Force on Force" to really shoot another person. Don't fool yourself and think that "I've made up my mind that when the time comes". When the time comes, most just cannot pull the trigger on another person. Most are just not up to it unless they have trained past this human instinct. This is why "first person shooter games" are figure so highly in active shooter incidents. They condition one to be able to shoot another without hesitation.

The first time I went into a shoot house at night with a flashlight and loaded HiPower I knew the targets were steel and cardboard but when I saw them wearing clothes, I just couldn't shoot for a couple of seconds at first as I wrestled with the problem of shooting something that really looked like a person. With just a bit of training you get over this but at the beginning is a wild feeling that makes the hair stand up on your neck and your hands shake.

So then, get a high quality airsoft pistol and M4 and start shooting it out with a friend. You will look like you have the measles at the end of the day but will be miles ahead of EVERBODY else that shoots at targets until they are comfortable.

Read Grossmans books. They are eye openers.

Byron

Lots of people can shoot. Most aren't gunfighters. (reply)

Cherokee — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 12:32:45 +0000

But, how do you find out if you can do it ? Training only prepares one, until the first time, you are still untested.