Anyone have a 257-420 mold laying around gathering rust?

by Paul ⌂, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 09:29 (4301 days ago)

I've been looking at it with the idea of milling off the gas check, rear driving band and last lube groove to convert it for use in a PCP air rifle. Sized correctly (still checking on correct diameter) it would make an interesting solid out of the right rifle, I'd think.

This guy's blog has put a serious craving on me for a 25 caliber - but ammo down this way is iffy. Somebody had Veral make up an LBT pellet mold, but that seems like a sizable chunk of change to lay out for such. Of course, reports are that his pellet is superbly accurate so maybe it'd be worth looking into. Still need to sell some stuff to fund the rifle first though.

Not quite....

by Hoot @, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 09:49 (4301 days ago) @ Paul

I have a 252 435 if you find out the diameter is truer to a quarter-bore. I'm not really interested in parting with the mold but I'd be happy to send you some projectiles. Just say the word.

Anyone have a 257-420 mold laying around gathering rust?

by Wildcat, Flint Hills of Kansas, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 10:36 (4301 days ago) @ Paul
edited by Wildcat, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 10:58

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I have a Lee .257 plain base tumble lube bullet. Probably meant for 25/20 but I use them as plinkers in my .250 Savages. Like Hoot I don't want to part with the mold but would be happy to send some or loan out the mold for a bit.

Thanks, Hoot and Wildcat...

by Paul ⌂, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 11:18 (4301 days ago) @ Wildcat

The Lyman and the Lee are too heavy "as is", so I'll need to adapt the mold to throw a shorter, lighter bullet. I hadn't seen the Lee before, need to look and see if I could locate one of their molds. That shows some promise, especially if it's cut down a bit. PLUS they are cheap enough that a double cavity wouldn't set me back all that much new if I can come across one.

What I'd REALLY like to be able to do would be to come up with a nose pour mold with base pins like those that are used as nose pins for casting hollow points. It seems to me that by varying the size and length of the base pin that one could change weight and distribution of mass to tweak for accuracy. BUT I know of no nose pour molds that would be cheap enough to fool around with.

That Lee mould was picked up on their surplus page.

by Wildcat, Flint Hills of Kansas, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 13:12 (4301 days ago) @ Paul

Its a 6 banger that was an overrun from a Cast Boolits group buy. If memory serves I got it for $25.

What's your target weight Paul?

by Hoot @, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 14:30 (4301 days ago) @ Paul

Also, do the lube grooves have a use on an air powered device? If not, it should be pretty straightforward to build an adjustable mold. Round nose milling cutter and a piece of 1/4" drill rod would get you a long ways down that road.....(this from a fella who hasn't cut a chip for over 35 years...)

Hoot, I'm not quite sure yet. Still reading, digging,

by Paul ⌂, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 14:53 (4301 days ago) @ Hoot

cogitating, etc. The more I dig the more intrigued I am. :-)

I've got an email off to Veral Smith of LBT about cast pellets. Didn't know he did that kind of work too. There's a guy or three on the Gateway to Airguns forum that use his molds in their Korean air rifles. Seems like they are shooting 50 +/- grain LBT slugs out of their 25 calibers.

The function of the lube grooves would be to reduce friction more than anything. It sounds like they are using .251" pure lead projectiles in their Sumatra rifles/carbines. My interest is in the Benjamin Marauder and I've not been able to find much about using cast in them. Don't know if they have the same choked barrel set up or not. I'm thinking that a bore diameter nose with a groove diameter reasonably thin skirt should be a good ticket towards accuracy in these guns - but it's just speculation at this point.

I've considered a design (need to draw it out) that would essentially be a bore diameter drill bit drilled nearly through a set of mold blocks. This would give a nose pour bullet. A groove diameter bit would follow it to allow for a pin setup to adjust length of skirt and possibly a hollow base. You'd end up with a flat round nose profile cup shape pellet with a short skirt at the base. If I had a decent drill press setup I'd take a shot at making one myself.

OK. The slugs I offered are for the .25ACP

by Hoot @, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 08:16 (4299 days ago) @ Paul

Nominal .252" and 50gr. I can measure and weigh if they are of interest. These are "slow movers" on my reloading bench (finger-pinchin' esso-bee's that they are to load) so you can let me know when/if you are ready.

Somehow I had not caught that detail...

by Paul ⌂, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 11:53 (4299 days ago) @ Hoot

I know some of the guys are using 25 ACP lead bullets in their 25 cal rifles. The main issue would be alloy, dead soft works best in the PCP's from what I've read.

I'd be interested in knowing what nose diameter as well as base diameter those have, if you get a chance to mic them. I'm referring to the forward section, not the meplat. I couldn't tell from the pic I saw if there's a kind of "bore riding" section or not.

Thanks!

OK. Some guys are getting great results with

by Paul ⌂, Monday, July 30, 2012, 14:16 (4297 days ago) @ Hoot

about a 50-57 grain bullet out of the Korean Sumatra 2500. Veral Smith (of all people) has produced some molds for them. So far I've not gotten any feed back from him via email. I'm starting to gravitate more and more towards the Sumatra. About 16 shots at good velocity with the heavy pellets, quarter sized groups at 70 yards. You can dial down the velocity or take it up to full power, it sounds very versatile. Now to see if I can thin the air gun herd here so that I'll have the $$$ necessary for the project. Kind of funny that I might end up with both a lever rifle and an LBT mold down here. :-) The investigation goes on, but things are starting to take shape in my mind. Ranch Dog did a group buy on a 25 acp mold a while back, I wonder what the lube groove diameter might be on them and if they'd bear sizing down to .251 or .250. May have to drop him a note on that, it might be a cheaper route than the LBT, and Veral's not been too anxious to get back to me on it.

I have a 257-312 I'm not really using

by woody, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 13:13 (4301 days ago) @ Paul

Probably would part with it.

Thanks, Woody.

by Paul ⌂, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 14:55 (4301 days ago) @ woody

That's a lot heavier than where I'd want to start out, IF I end up following through on this.

Thought it would be but wanted to offer

by woody, Thursday, July 26, 2012, 20:39 (4301 days ago) @ Paul

I should use it for my Roberts. Maybe someday.

Why?

by Byron, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 11:08 (4299 days ago) @ Paul

One could easily buy a very large supple of match grade pellets for a couple of hundred dollars.

It is very doubtful that you could cast close to the consistency of the swaged match pellets that are readily and cheaply available.

http://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-premier-25-destroyer-pellet.html

If you are planing on spending close to a grand on an air rifle you should not skimp on ammo.

Byron

Why? Well, geography, politics, personal inclination...

by Paul ⌂, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 11:50 (4299 days ago) @ Byron

and many other reasons, a few of which are included here.

1. We do not have a local supply of any 6.35mm pellets.
2. Even 5.5mm pellets are expensive and of low quality (same for 4.5mm)
3. Carrying $200 worth of pellets is a problem as weight is a big issue when traveling by air.
4. Ordering from the U.S. is problematic because customs here is not letting in "dangerous goods" (we're looking at legal means of pressuring customs into allowing sporting goods - but that's still a barrier)
5. Carrying "ammunition" in by friends is problematic due to the same issue as 4. Not everyone is good at talking their way through asinine official opposition to a perfectly legal item.
6. Tinkering is a part of who I am. I like to hand load as opposed to buying factory ammo. I like to cast my own as opposed to buying factory bullets. It is a part of the whole shooting game - to ME. To each their own.
7. Heavier than normal pellets are intriguing to me. Why launch a 28 grain pellet when you have the option of launching one at twice the weight? Yes, they may or may not prove accurate and that is why I'm looking into the subject, seeking input from others who have already cast their own.

Probably won't work anyway......

by Byron, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 17:59 (4299 days ago) @ Paul

The rifles you have noted are designed for pellets in the 25 to 30 grain range. The rifling twist is set for these pellets. Trying to shoot heavier pellets will be like shooting 75 grain M262 5.56mm bullets in a A1 1/12" barrel designed for 55 grain M193 bullets...

Unless you can feed your fancy airgun with ammo designed for it...

No bueno.....

Byron

There is such a thing as an

by Paul ⌂, Saturday, July 28, 2012, 18:11 (4299 days ago) @ Byron

after market barrel. Some of the guys are getting good results with solids in the 50+ grain range. Shot count per fill goes down, FPE goes up. In many ways the air rifles are even more interesting than cartridge guns. They can be quite finicky, but taking game at extended ranges with them is a real accomplishment.

At this point in time I'm digging for info. Time will tell which way we go. The Korean rifles seem to handle the heavies much better, even with factory barrels. Cost is quite reasonable as well. They are, however, ugly as a gold plated Roxio, well the Sumatras and EunJins are anyway. The Evanix is at least reasonably acceptable (to my eye) but haven't found anyone shooting heavies out of them yet.

Sounds like a lot of work...

by Byron, Sunday, July 29, 2012, 14:04 (4298 days ago) @ Paul

Unless one has real deep pockets and a bunch of time on their hands...

:-)

Byron

Sounds like a lot of work...

by Paul ⌂, Sunday, July 29, 2012, 17:52 (4298 days ago) @ Byron

Have you ever played around with higher end (power wise) air rifles, Byron?

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